The Other 6 Days

What Is Love? | The Other 6 Days | Episode 32

• Southwest Church • Season 2 • Episode 32

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In this episode, your host pastor CJ McFadden & lead Pastor Ricky Jenkins talk about all things love, but first, we start with some fun conversation around pop-culture love songs, stories or romantic comedies. We then jump into a little history & background around the word "love"what it is, what it isn't, what culture has made it into. We then discuss some helpful ways we can help restore & redeem it back to what God really intended & close the podcast as always with some helpful information & resources for you to discover. 

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Speaker 1:

a late apologist, but he's brilliant and really shaped the world with how we approach. Apologetics in the new century said of love that it is the supreme ethic of God, and one scholar said that love is the encompassing virtue through which all other virtues are housed.

Speaker 2:

Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Other Six Days podcast, where we chat about life outside of Sundays and what it means to live from our gatherings, and not just for them. I'm your host, cj McFadden, here again, as always, with Pastor Ricky Jenkins, and today we are here to talk about all things love and hopefully help us better understand what it is, what it does and some of the ways that we can hopefully live it out better in each of our own lives. So, ricky, you ready, I'm ready, let's do this, all right? So, as always, we're going to kick it off with something a little bit fun. Ricky, I'd love for you to tell us what are some immediate pop culture, love songs, love stories, rom-com, movies or references that first come to your mind when you hear the word love.

Speaker 1:

Love song new edition. Can you Stand the Rain On a perfect day? I know that I can count on you. Can you Stand in the Rain, ladies and gentlemen, top 10 love song of all time. Yeah, what about you?

Speaker 2:

I got Whitney Houston Bodyguard. I Will Always Love.

Speaker 1:

You, your Bodyguard guy, okay oh man, that was one.

Speaker 2:

Kevin Costner, that one got me.

Speaker 1:

Do you know the saxophone on? And I Will Always Love you. The saxophone is on that. That guy won a Grammy. I went to church with him in Memphis, Tennessee. What Famous saxophone is named Kirk Whalum? Oh wow, Good friend of mine. Oh, that's awesome. Almost went down on a plane with him. But that's another story.

Speaker 2:

That's another story, for another day, another time. Oh man, yes, what about rom-coms? Anything else you hear? Oh, man.

Speaker 1:

I love rom-coms. It's probably outside of epics, yeah, my favorite medium of movie. Um, I'm starting like twists and dystopia even more, but land and then like a good rom-com. I loved uh fool's rush in oh yeah, with Salma Hayek. Yeah, the guy that just died from Friends, and I loved how to Lose a Guy in 10 Days, sadly. I loved he's Just Not that Into you. You know that one that was a really good one. And then there's one that's offbeat. It was kind of indie but it's called have Plenty and it was about this guy who was a poet and his last name was plenty, who was in love with this girl named havelin okay and so it's just a little thing.

Speaker 1:

And he, his poetry, yeah, was woven throughout the movie. Oh yeah, yeah, that's right, you're pastors and artists.

Speaker 2:

Oh, my favorite, my favorite uh movies, or actually one of my two of them that I like was, uh, the 10 things I hate about you, so it was a heath ledger one and, oh, okay, that was a good. I hadn't my favorite my favorite movies, or actually one of my two of them that I like was the 10 things I hate about you, so it was a Heath Ledger one and that was a good one. I hadn't seen that one. I need to see that. Yeah, it was pretty good. And then the princess bride.

Speaker 1:

That's just a classic for me. It's just, you know just great movie. Is that a halfway Uh?

Speaker 2:

princess bride Princess.

Speaker 1:

Diaries Princess Bride is the old one.

Speaker 2:

As you Wish. It's the one with the guy with the six fingers, and like all of that. Have you ever seen that? I've seen that.

Speaker 1:

Oh man, oh, I got to see that.

Speaker 2:

Oh man, okay, Okay, we'll have to send that your way.

Speaker 1:

And Anne Hathaway is amazing. Yeah, that just needs to be seen yeah, any movie with Like I wish she would move to me and April's neighborhood.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So she can. She could be her and her husband could be our couple friends. Yeah, Like I would just love for her. I wish she was on one side of my house and I wish Chip and Joanna Gaines was on the right side. And I need to find some black folk. Yeah, but that would be so cool for them to be my neighbors. Yeah, that would be so cool. Yeah yeah, that would be so cool. Yeah, you would have. I just think we have such engaging conversation, oh, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I didn't expect those two. I didn't either, thanks, um, oh, another one I wanted to throw in there. Actually it was uh, uh. So there's a movie called redeeming love. Uh, it's the, it's kind of a spin, or it's the story of jose and gomer. Have you seen that one? Oh, it's like a new version of that and it's set in a wild West. Oh, okay. Dude, it's done really good.

Speaker 1:

We need to do all those movies. Yeah, you know, especially now that we got a little money in the body of Christ. There you go.

Speaker 2:

That's a great. I'd love to see that. Yeah, it's really good, Okay, Um, so I think the God family, spouses, country pickles and pets, but I think it would benefit our listeners to talk a little background history and some good to knows.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, sure, yeah, a late apologist, but he's brilliant and really shaped the world with how we approach apologetics in the new century set of love that it is. It is the supreme ethic of God, and one scholar said that love is the encompassing virtue through which all other virtues are housed, and in Galatians, five, when Paul lists the fruit of the spirit right Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. There's been scholars who have argued semantically that there's only eight virtues there and that love is mentioned somewhat as just the encompassing virtue. Right, and so my patience is only as good as the love in which it is in bed. My joy is only good as the love in which is is in bed. My joy is only good as the love in which is it in bed.

Speaker 1:

And so I think, before we talk about, like you know, etymologically right, how it shows in scripture what the words mean, that the context right is based, rooted, grounded, stems from the nature of God himself and who God is. And, biblically speaking, then, for us as Christians, it is wrong to speak of love without, first and foremost, founding our conversations in the very nature of the triune God who, in himself and his existence, is expressed in a communal love, one God, yet coexisting as three divine persons, which, if you can understand that, you're beyond all of us. But even in his eternal nature he is already expressing love. So let's talk about what it is.

Speaker 1:

That's a great way to start, though, can we say this yet what is love, baby, don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more.

Speaker 2:

Okay, I don't think anybody knew that that was a trinidadian, a german euro dance artist, uh hadaway that's right, folks here at the other six days, we do the hard work.

Speaker 1:

Thank, thank you. Thank you, okay, that's good, but yeah, I mean, there's, there's, there's. You know, the Bible mentions love everywhere. The Greek word eros right Speaks of romantic love. We've kind of made that a dirty word when we talk about erotic right. Yeah, store gay, store gay right was the idea of familial love.

Speaker 1:

Philia, of course, philadelphia, the city of brotherly love, and so that's talking about brotherly love. And then, of course, we see this call to godly love that's called agape, which is the idea of unconditional love, sacrificial love, love that is expressly manifest, in so far that it is evidenced, it is beyond spoken, which was why I think we got to root our understanding of love in God's person and nature and who he is, Because the way God shows love is not often the way we show love. The way God shows love is all the ways. God is it. He is love, he feels love, he sends love, he shares love, he speaks love, he shares love, he speaks love and then proves love on a cross called Calvary, yeah, lord. And so when we see the person and nature of God and all the ways through which he goes in and about with love helps us understand how much more we need to acquiesce to where God is. So, anyway, that's what I like to think about. When I think about love, what?

Speaker 2:

is love yeah, oh, I love about love. What is love? Yeah, oh I love the way.

Speaker 1:

Keep going. This is good stuff.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I love the way yeah, you mentioned that that he's interwoven through all of those components.

Speaker 1:

That's such a, such a beautiful way to put it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, agape, love is mentioned over 115 times and calls us to show others, and so, um, so, with that, uh we, uh, what have we seen love? Let's talk a little bit about what we've seen it become culturally.

Speaker 1:

That's good, that's good. Again, I think we've got to ground it right and how we got here, um, and then I'll let you kind of finish the thought as as we kind of bring description to our current, uh, sentiments towards love. Now here's the problem. Most people speak in these kind of like holistic, exhaustive expressions of where the culture is Right, yeah, and we make the infamous negative expressions become holistic and like there's a lot of people that know what love is Right, they just don't make the news. So I think that's just important to say, because you know love. I hate it when people say, say, because you know love. I hate it when people say, yeah, because you know the church just gets this all wrong. No, your church does you know what I'm saying? No, the ones I've been to churches all the time and they always do this, that's the eight you've been to. You know what I'm saying, and so, anyways, I want to be careful with how we talk about it.

Speaker 1:

But it is by and large fair to say that ours is what we call a postmodern moment. What does that mean? Postmodern means that, whereas for the last several centuries, most of at least Western civilization has been rooted and grounded in a construct whereby there is authority vested in the church or Judeo-Christian faith or some sort of historic orthodoxy of Christianity. Right, for hundreds of years we were that. Our culture is increasingly Europe's, already there, but we've moved towards a post-Christian, post-modern era where the locus of authority has moved from institutions to individuals. Right, that's what it means to be post-modern. It means that the concept of authority for the average person living in the Western civilization today, they're not looking for authority outside of them, they are espousing to an authority inside of them. Here's the problem when the locus of authority moves from God or the church, whatever you want to call all that stuff to me is that the only way through which I can mediate my authority are through achievement and feeling and affirmation, and so we have less than concrete, less than consistent mediums through which to ascertain our own authority.

Speaker 1:

And so what ends up happening then is that the postmodern guy who doesn't know about Jesus, doesn't know about the Bible, right, is basing his expression of love on his definitions and his understanding, because he's the authority. Oh yeah, right. Which means love happens when I feel it. No matter what I know, I feel it. Love happens when I achieve whatever I think it is Love happens when you affirm that it is what you see me doing. Right, because why it's all about? You know my own conceptions thereof.

Speaker 1:

So that makes it easy then for so many people in our culture it's not just teeny boppers anymore to say, oh man, I just never felt this way. I'm in love and oh my gosh, I'm obsessed with this career. I'm in love, or man, this country and everything this country's done for me. I'm in love, and sometimes, if we're not careful, that can be completely divorced from what God is saying. Love is why? Because I'm defining what it is. So I think it's just important for us to kind of provide that context as to how we tend to approach it versus how God tends to approach it. What do you think?

Speaker 2:

No, I think that's a perfect way to start that and yeah, I've seen it in this individualized society and just espousing it as our own authority. It's a transactional exchange right, yes, so it's based off of what I can, based off of what I'm given or what.

Speaker 1:

I can receive right.

Speaker 2:

So we only give in order to get is kind of what happens. A lot we see, and then also we get into this a little bit, talking about it's something that we can fall in and out of then, because there's no authority outside of myself.

Speaker 1:

It's an emotional feeling, right, yeah, yeah, and it's so hard to combat against it, insofar that if I've defined it, I get to also define the rules, and that's why it's so hard when people don't have the Bible, don't have the gospel, and you actually have to show them real love to turn their hearts around, because they're saying what do you mean? Of course I love her. I felt something and it made me sad and I felt butterflies. So of course I love her. Or, yeah, I loved my family. Well, I did something. They didn't give it back to me so I stopped loving them. But I love them well, because they're in that transactional scope that you speak of.

Speaker 2:

So, anyways, yeah, no, that's really good.

Speaker 2:

And and then also too, like you know, unfortunately in our culture, with all of the slogans and shoes and music and all the thumbs you know, from Beyonce to Beatles and all that stuff it's thrown around so much in every day as a go-to noun, adjective or verb, that, um, I think and you know, like we said, we're talking deep emotions towards our spouses, families and children, or pickles and pets and stuff, so it's cheapened what love really is. So we all know that love is good, but the value of love needs to be upheld. So that's why you're saying pointing back, we have to, we have to establish that and root it in God, otherwise we can miss. You know, we can miss there. So that's exactly right. Yeah, it's good. Like you were talking about too, from going from institution to to a kind of an individual authority, pastors. I saw one statement from somebody that said pastors are no longer viewed as spiritual authoritarians, but guides and helpers who journey with people to offer prayer, care and support.

Speaker 1:

Exactly, right. Yeah, because the postmodern heart moves themselves to the driver's seat and they see everything else through a complimentary scope. Oh, yeah, right. And so it says I'm, it's all about me and I'm the authority. Then the only reason you should exist is to complement the direction I'm already pursuing for my own life. Right? So the postmodern struggles then to see God. Anything is but a cosmic slot machine or a cosmic Santa Claus who comes in at opportune moments when I'm convenient, when it's convenient for me. Yeah, because I'm the driver, he's a passenger, and if he's not driving where I'm going, I'm going to do away with him. And if she's not driving where I'm going, I'm going to do it with her, and if that career is not driving the way, I'm going. And so that's the problem. It's so hard to understand love when you have that kind of flipped up thinking in your heart and mind.

Speaker 2:

And all that to say about this. The reason, you know, obviously, why we're discussing it here is just to say how this has, how this has or can creep into uh, uh, our uh, what we're trying to um share as what love really is, so this kind of postmodern idea, because that is a danger and we just need to be caught If we, if we don't know that, then again we're just sharing and we're peddling a version of love that is not accurate. And we percent, we do a disservice to the people that we shepherd.

Speaker 1:

A hundred percent. Well, we call it postmodern just because that's what historians say. I think we're just getting back to our Garden of Eden roots, you know where. I can't possibly believe God is that good, and I can't possibly believe his way of doing things. So I'm going to eat the fruit off of the tree because I'm assuming that there's no way God can be telling me the truth, that him by himself is good enough for me. I'm going to take control of my life and do it my way, and I think this post-modernity, this flipped out way of seeing love, is as old as the garden itself, which, then, is good news, because if Jesus fixed that, he can fix whatever perceptions of love we have today, and that gives me hope, absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So, as believers, how do we, uh, how do we live in light of God's call to love others? Practically Sure, there's some things you'd say that Sure, I love what you have here.

Speaker 1:

We must love God in order to love others and in order to love ourselves and in order to receive love from others, we must understand who God is. We must know him in the pardon of our sins First. John 4, 19 says we love because he first loved us. And I love the rhythm because basically saying you can't do this without God. Yep, you won't understand this without God, you won't see this without God. So Fyodor Dostoevsky, the Russian Christian thought leader he was the author of the famous novel the Brothers Karamazov, the brothers carry myself and Theodore opined that that until you see yourself as God intended you to be, you will be incapable of love. Until you first see yourself as God, the authority, intended you to be, you are incapable of it.

Speaker 1:

And I think, if I'm going to understand love, I think first there has to be this awareness that I've missed it and I didn't get this right and I don't understand it, and that I never will in my own power, and that there's good news that someone loves me and created me in his own image, who has to understand who love is, because he in himself is love. And I call people listening to lay down your rights, lay down that steering wheel, lay it down and come to the feet of the cross, because if you want to know what love is, bible says he stretched out his arms and died. I've got to be worth something, cj, I got to be. I got to be. I got to have something special about me. I got to have something. I got to be, I got to have something special about me. I got to have something. And you know what the crazy thing is? I'm pretty sure I don't. And he died for me anyway, and that's special.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And that's how I understand what love is. It starts with Jesus.

Speaker 2:

It starts with Jesus, by the way it ends with Jesus, and it's all a lifelong pursuit of love, but rooted in Jesus, yeah, I I one um one quote that I heard from uh, do you remember when Brett Humphrey came down?

Speaker 2:

here. Sure, he's a children's pastor here. That's a good old boy, yeah. But yeah, he came down and, um, it's something that will stick with me forever. He just said, and it was so. It's so funny, he's a children. Of course, a children's pastor would have a quote that I was like you know that is so sticky. And he said we keep loving people until they ask why. And when I had heard that I was like wow, that's so profound and so I've actually adopted that for myself.

Speaker 2:

But I said I carry it and say I'm going to keep loving people and telling them why, so they have to know the reason for the love that I show, because outside of it I know that, like you said, I do not have the ability or the even the understanding to be able to showcase that. In a way, god needs to be able to display that through me. So I submit myself to his authority and he showcases he puts love on display for others to see they go. What is that they say? Let me show you a better way.

Speaker 1:

That's it. We had a when I was in Memphis Tennessee. So you see it, either way, that's it. We had a when I was in Memphis Tennessee. I was a campus pastor and we had a member of our church, kind of new, Pretty sure his name was Henry, let's just call him Henry. Either way, he was African-American guy, late 30s or so, just a faithful guy in our church. He was living in the homeless mission that was just up the street. We did ministry with those guys great guys and had given his life to Christ, grown up in Christ, all that good stuff. Had just gotten out of prison, you know, maybe a year or two before.

Speaker 1:

Well, he's in my office and I'm just hearing Henry's story and he's just saying man, I was actually a nation of Islam for like 10, 12 years and found the nation in prison. And he's just telling me this story about how he was a Muslim, had a lot of hate, bitterness in his heart. A Muslim had a lot of hate, bitterness in his heart, did a lot of schooling and read all these books to figure out how to confound Christians when they tried to witness to him. He just hated the gospel. He'd grown up in church, didn't like it. Well, I'm just looking at Henry and saying, Henry, you were in the nation but you're one of the most faithful members of our church.

Speaker 1:

What happened, he said, in prison, this old country Baptist church kept coming out to do ministry. He said, man, you know, it's country Baptist church, little country, bumpkin pastor, and these old white haired ladies and guys coming in playing this terrible music. And you know, we had to do it because good behavior, I could get benefits by, you know, not having to do this and all this kind of stuff from my prison sentence. And he looks at me, says, Rick, I would try to confound them, I would try to argue, and they kept coming back and loving me Wow. And because they kept coming back and loving me, Wow. And because they kept loving me, I said Jesus has to be real, that's exactly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh, I love that. That's so good. So, yeah, I was just, I guess, with the same question, you know the how do we? What are some other ways that we might live in light of God's call to love others?

Speaker 1:

Some practical ways One of those ways that I wrote down here is spending time with God.

Speaker 2:

Intimacy is through proximity right, that's right. So even though we can't see God physically, we can still be present with God and he with us spiritually. So we do this through different, various ways. We call some of these the spiritual disciplines, things like that, but I think those are really helpful in kind of orienting people to some things that can help them to understand and feel and know the love of God so that they might put on display God's love.

Speaker 1:

So good, brother. Yeah, spiritual disciplines of prayer and proximity, journaling. Some of us are just people that need to go walk because, in nature, we sense the presence of God and our hearts are open up to him. Scripture, memory, scripture, meditation, fasting, all those good things, obviously worshiping and corporate entities the church, the small group, the men's group, the women's group, confessing your sins one to another, getting involved in what God is doing and being generous as to the hurting and the least of these, and the local church, I think are all imperative. I was going to say something with regards to just kind of how we flesh this stuff out, um, and I lost my thought, so let's keep on going.

Speaker 2:

Well, if you remember, if you remember it, just jump in for sure. Well, and another one of those is, uh, obviously, uh, when you were talking about worship and generosity and things like that, we have confession, you know, repenting for the things that you know maybe we fall short in, and stuff like that. And, um, uh, so another one I wrote down here um, john 21,. Jesus said to Peter if you love me, feed my lambs, shepherd my sheep, feed my sheep. Um, I just was, uh, as we were talking in a previous podcast about driving towards, you know, first, corinthians 13 and all the things that love is and what love does, and you about driving towards.

Speaker 2:

you know first Corinthians 13 and all the things that love is and what love does, and you know love is kind and patient and doesn't envy or boast and proud Um, I was just thinking about that verse where Jesus is called to Peter you know if if you love me, do these things you know, and really so.

Speaker 2:

If, like you said before, if God is love, then to share God is to share love with others. So that's the ultimate way I would feel. Ultimately. How could you remember? There's that Penn and Teller like oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

He basically said that the guy is an atheist yes, and Penn and Teller yeah. And he basically the point is you know, how can you be a real Christian if you don't proselytize?

Speaker 2:

Exactly.

Speaker 1:

That if you believe there's a real loving God that has rescued me from a real eternal hell, yeah. And if you don't love me by interrupting my life in championing his cause for me, that I might receive him and also enjoy that rescue. They have, man. That's not that you can't be a Christian atheist. Yeah, that cool. Yeah, exactly, he didn't even believe in God. You can't be a Christian.

Speaker 2:

An atheist said that Isn't that cool? Yeah, exactly, he didn't even believe in God and he's thinking like he's all. How much more? How much would I think that you'd have to hate me to not share what you think is the most important thing in your life?

Speaker 1:

with me, that's right.

Speaker 2:

And so to share God is to show love.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, scripture says that he is the latest coming only so that more people can hear about him. Yeah, Right, like the reason everybody says it's so bad right now. Why won't Jesus come back? Because he loves people and he wants us to reach them. Yeah, you know. And so what I was going to say earlier about spiritual disciplines prayer and proximity to Jesus.

Speaker 1:

I'm just chasing a little something. We know the scripture says no man shall see me and live so there, physical reality that I cannot see the Shekinah glory of God in this temporal body. Right, but I want to ask the Lord when I meet Him, is one of the reasons you don't allow us to see you as you are? Is because once we saw your beauty, we'd never leave that moment. Like if I saw the, if I saw the Holy One. I'm sorry, I'm not leaving this, you're right. Like I'm sorry I'm not leaving this, you're right. Like you know, the people in heaven would not. If God said you got to come back, they would go off. You know what I mean. So sometimes I wonder in his majesty and mercy, has he delayed even his revealing of?

Speaker 2:

himself to us.

Speaker 1:

But yet and said but son, here's a Bible, son, here's a worship song, and son, here's a walk, here's a. Bible Son here's a worship song and, son, here's a walk and here's a journal. Right here's a small group and you can't see me, but you still get to be with me.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to give you enough for now, trust me. Well, as always, we hope to have helpful conversations that are engaging, but we want to make sure to provide people with resources as well, so what are some resources that you'd like to point people to that they might find?

Speaker 1:

Guys, check these out in the show notes. These are great books. These are great books by great leaders who really get it and are waxing eloquent about some of the stuff we're in today. John Mark Homer has just been blazing trails for all of us, lately reprising Dallas Willard, I thank you. There's a book called Loveology. That's great. Frankie Chan and Crazy Love, overwhelmed by a Relentless God. The Redeeming Love Trailer.

Speaker 2:

I love that. I put it in there. I think some people will get a kick out of it. It's got a chosen feel to it, does it really? So it kind of, but yeah, I think people will really resonate with it if they like movies.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to watch it because I love the story of Hosea, yeah, so those are good resources, okay.

Speaker 2:

And, as always, guys, we want your questions, comments and feedback here, so leave a comment on YouTube or, if you're just listening, you can email us at the other six days at southwestchurchcom. That's the number six and Ricky. Any last comments or thoughts on love before we wrap it up?

Speaker 1:

You're listening to this right now. My admonishment to you is this If Let it be love Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Well, there you have it, guys. Thanks again for joining us on another episode of the Other Six Days podcast. Be sure to hit that subscribe, follow, share and like, spread the word and, as always, take what you've heard and turn it into something you can do to further the gospel and the world around you. Until next time, peace.