The Other 6 Days
As the church, we spend most of our thought, time and effort working towards our weekend gatherings; with the majority of our lives being lived outside of Sundays. The Other 6 Days Podcast is designed to help us be more intentional about the ways we can "show up" for the gospel the other 6 days of the week.
The Other 6 Days
Keeping the Faith | The Other 6 Days | Episode 34
In this episode, we have invited a very special guest, Pastor Chris Brown from North Coast Church to offer his unique insights and perspectives as we talk about the up's and downs of the Christian faith, getting it right sometimes and getting it wrong. This podcast promises to be full of fun stories, helpful insights but most of all, practical ways we can engage in conversations about our faith with the world around us.
For more information or to join the conversation, head over to https://southwestchurch.com/theother6days or email us at theother6days@southwestchurch.com
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Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Six Days Podcast where we chat about life outside of Sundays and what it means to live from our gatherings, and not just for them.
Speaker 2:This is our host, cj. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:And I'm here with Pastor Ricky Jenkins and we have a very special guest today, pastor Chris Brown. Pray for the podcast folks the.
Speaker 2:Chris.
Speaker 1:Brown, the Chris.
Speaker 3:Brown, if you're tuning in for the other, Chris Brown.
Speaker 2:Like most of the listeners, this is your time to opt out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's jacked up what you did to Rihanna. Go ahead.
Speaker 1:CJ. For those of you that don't already know, Chris pastors a thriving church called North Coast down.
Speaker 2:You usually do your openings pretty smooth. You've let this one be already.
Speaker 1:It did yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got interrupted a little bit, but I'm going to make sure that doesn't happen again.
Speaker 3:It's a good church, thriving. It seems like a stretch, but whatever, it's a thriving church. Yeah, 14,000 folks, whatever. But are they saved?
Speaker 2:No, and they're different folks every weekend. That's what you don't know either, so we bust them in.
Speaker 1:Well, there you go. Maybe we'll skip the intro on this one, perfect.
Speaker 2:Anyway, it you go.
Speaker 1:Maybe we'll skip the intro on this one. Perfect, anyway, it wasn't working anyway. Anyway, chris is a wonderful communicator and we're glad to have him here today. We're here today to talk about the Christian faith culture and some practical ways that we can show up better in the world around us. So, chris, I understand that you're an avid fisherman and we think it's only appropriate to kick this podcast off with some of the best and worst fishing stories you've got.
Speaker 2:What does that have to do with the other six days? And you just setting the listeners up about increasing their faith.
Speaker 3:Either way, as long as you don't take more than a minute on this story, that's all we need.
Speaker 2:You're going to ask me to do a story and keep it under a minute. True.
Speaker 1:Everyone knows I'm not good at segways, so that's why we're doing fishing.
Speaker 2:That's fishing. I love fishing. I grew up, I, I, my, I have pictures of fishing before, memories. I have pictures of me and diapers on my dad's knee with a little cane pole in my hand he's holding it along with me that I have no memory of. So that's been a passion. But yeah, fishing, probably down the shores of Mexico with my brother Greatest memories, phenomenal memories. That's cool Under a minute there you go there's a great story that went with that, but I'm not allowed to share it.
Speaker 1:No, you can't, Ricky. You have it here now.
Speaker 3:I'm not an avid fisherman, I'm an avid indoorsman.
Speaker 1:You say I'm not an avid fisherman, as if you are one just not quite avid.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, like I love, I do love salmon cj. Here's a little. I'm not an avid ballerina, that was good. I love salmon, I love halibut. Yeah, I love sea bass.
Speaker 2:So he's a fisherman.
Speaker 3:I love fried catfish. No, my first time I went fishing, I could. It's not the first time I went fishing, the first time I caught a fish. Oh so we went to a place called no-transcript.
Speaker 2:Did you just laugh at Catfish Pond? Yeah, because that's when you pay $5 and you're guaranteed to catch seven fish in eight minutes, even without bait. It's a trail farm.
Speaker 3:Anyways, I'm like seven you know what I mean and we had the bamboo stuff and I parked my cane pole on some rocks because I was over it. It's just like this didn't happen fast enough. This is not my sport. Ready to go play football, and I'll never get my mom screaming what's the red and white thing?
Speaker 2:Bobber Bobber, bobber, bobber. You can call it a bobble Bobber. That's how we know you're not an avid fisherman.
Speaker 3:So that red and white spherical shaped thing, and my mom, Ricky, Ricky your butt, what is it, bobber? Your butt, your bubble's bubbling. Your bubble went down and I jumped up and I pulled up this white perch. I still remember it was a white perch because I can still remember how delicious it tasted, on some white bread, anyways, and it was all wrapped up in the stream. Yeah, you know, and it had been trying to fight forever and that was my first fish, so you rodeoed your first fish.
Speaker 2:You didn't even catch him with the hook, you just lassoed him.
Speaker 3:I literally caffed it.
Speaker 2:And thanks to the bobbler.
Speaker 3:I just said caft, as if caft was a verb because I couldn't come up with the verb roped.
Speaker 2:I was just impressed that in the catfish pond you caught a white perch. That's pretty good.
Speaker 1:Oh man, I didn't even catch that.
Speaker 2:That was good, wow, people are like how'd that get in?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's true. It's true, yeah, but that's I like that one, that's good I got to.
Speaker 1:My fly rod was broken one time when we went to Colorado and I used to go fly fishing with my dad when we were younger, and so I had to use a little hot pink Snoopy rod. Oh yeah, with a lure across the some trophy water there, and so, yeah, I landed a 23-inch brown trout. And the guy next to me is just screaming On the Snoopy rod, on the.
Speaker 2:Snoopy rod yeah, 23 inch.
Speaker 1:Dragging it across the rocks, you know, trying to get it in.
Speaker 2:Yeah it was a big trout. That could be an IFGA record on a Snoopy rod.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was pretty good. That's good. I've done a lot with the Snoopy rod, so even deep sea fishing.
Speaker 2:Oh, I remember the first marlin. I caught on a Snoopy rod.
Speaker 1:Came up because my bobler was moving all it came up with the line just wrapped all around it. It's a white perch, maybe White perch marlin? People looked at that and said man, I've never seen a marlin caught in a catfish pond. Now, that's a story. That's a good story.
Speaker 3:Bobbler, bobbler.
Speaker 1:You wrote for that, oh man.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, when are we going to start recording?
Speaker 1:We're going to jump in.
Speaker 2:Welcome to another episode of the other six days. All right, oh boy, I don't care if this is beneficial to anyone else. This has been the best moment of my week so far.
Speaker 3:I think that has been our MO for the last year. Yeah, we care about having some good fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, these have gone down a random route before. We'll end up talking about AI in here somewhere. For sure. That's good, yeah, well, today we're going to have a conversation about faith, and I think it's good to start off with anything that you might be encouraged by regarding conversations around faith in our culture right now. We may even need to define what faith means, but just kind of a start there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. And I think where we're going today, especially with Pastor Chris here and just his angle on, you know, I've never known a communicator that is so fiercely biblical and so fiercely attentive to the cues of culture as Chris Brown, and just how he weaves exposition with storytelling. He knows, you know, it's the old Spurgeonism right, a preacher ought to have Bible in one hand, newspaper in the other. And Chris has been there. But I think, cj, where we're going is, you know.
Speaker 3:So the Greek word for faith is pistou, which is this idea of belief that acts right. And so it's one thing to believe in God, it's one thing to act in obedience to God. And I think when Christianity celebrates faith, it's not just an easy believism but it's coupled with a true heart that is trying to have a do-ism to it right, it's the holistic followership of Jesus. And so I think we mean that on one pole. I think the other pole is just the Christian faith. Where's the status of this movement of Christ followers in the earth? What's going on with the movement that was spawned 2,000 years ago?
Speaker 2:So I think it's all that stuff. It's hard to put an answer because you gave two oxymorons, Christianity and culture, and I'm like they don't have anything to do with each other. I can't speak about that.
Speaker 1:You know, it ain't chocolate and peanut butter. They go good together.
Speaker 2:If there's anything that's killing Christianity nowadays, it's our culture. I, if there's anything that's killing Christianity nowadays, it's our culture. That's right. I mean, culture is killing the calling, that's right. We have people that are Christian but we act most non-Christian, un-christian, non-christian like because of culture. You know, we're in the most divided America that's ever happened in my lifetime. I think the only next level is a true civil war where Americans were fighting Americans. But, man, we are more divided than we've ever been on this one nation, indivisible, and Christianity is right, smack in the middle of it, and Christians have absolutely no issue with posting and flaming this issue or this person or this thing or that thing, and I go. What happened to the love of God in this? And culture is killing our calling right now in amazing ways.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you know. There's an old quote, guys. There's a Cardinal that died as a United States Catholic Cardinal. I think he died around 13 or 14. I'm forgiving that I don't forget his name. Maybe we can find it and put in the show notes, but he's on his deathbed. He's kind of a venerable guy, done some good things in the Catholic church, but he's on his deathbed. He's kind of a venerable guy, done some good things in the Catholic church and he's being. He's on his deathbed, being interviewed and I'm going to botch the quote. But essentially he says hey, it seems like persecution is for Christian Christians is on the rise.
Speaker 3:This is when Pew Research was starting to discover that the nons people who don't express any or espouse any kind of connection, nons people who don't express or espouse any kind of connection, any faith, were growing massively. We've got that data now, and so she's just spouting off all these truths and then this cardinal who's on his deathbed says I will die safely in my bed. My successor will die being persecuted and mocked in the public square. His successor will die a martyr in prison Square. His successor will die a martyr in prison and his successor will, in league with other Christians around the world pick up the broken shards of a ruined civilization and pick up and carry the cross again to rebuild.
Speaker 3:And I just thought that was such a wonderful picture of how, at home, the Christian faith is in chaos.
Speaker 3:And I think one of the things that I see in our culture even though it's going to get worse before it gets better, right, but I think it's going to be so helpful to us that the foundations are falling apart, that we're having to literally do pre-evangelism, because evangelism doesn't work, because no one knows who Jesus is and what Jesus is.
Speaker 3:We got to go to the kind of the original perceptions of what is life, what is meaning, and talk about what Jesus says to that Right. So there's some shaky ground for us, but Christianity is home in those spaces, and so I'll just end my thought saying the way I look at the landscape is this notion that, historically, christianity is at home when she is powerless. And it is through powerlessness that our influence has increased over the centuries. And I've seen in history that the more power Christians gain, the less influence we have. And I think culture is about to turn back and history repeat itself where we have less power but God uses less power to bring about more influence. So that's a bit kind of overarching, but that's how I'm seeing stuff that I'm reading.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's great. I, when you to speak to what you were talking about, chris, as far as, like, you know how they're kind of two opposing things. I was just thinking about how we show up in our faith and how culture perceives us and how we do that. So, yeah, there's kind of a mix there of like how they'll, just how they would describe that we show up, which can not be well, sometimes by the inflammatory remarks and things, and then at other things, by us not knowing how to live out our faith in a way to be an example to them.
Speaker 2:So it's good, we're prone to win arguments, not people, and I can't find a verse saying win an argument. I can find verses saying be prepared to give an answer, but I can find verses say we're supposed to win people. And somehow we've confused in amazing ways. We did. We were at a conference out in Charlotte and they said hey, do you want to go by? Joe Gibbs Racing? Joe Gibbs had finished writing a book, was part of the interview in this conference said do you want to come by and see the NASCAR garage? And I'm like, oh that would be awesome.
Speaker 2:I'm not a huge NASCAR fan, but I love watching Sure, but I want to see a NASCAR. Yeah, totally, and I like watching the last 15 laps of a 900-lap race car has 40 to 60 of those cars, you know, in a process of being built for all the different tracks, so I'm like there's not one m&m car and they're like no, no, no, we got 52 of these right now being built, so you're walking around looking at this and at the end of the whole tour you come by the showroom cars that are sitting there and I I was just joking around and I was like, hey, so what would it, what would it cost if North coast wanted to sponsor a car?
Speaker 2:And he's like, uh, what do you mean? I go and said M&Ms next race. I don't want to M&M on that car, I want to say North coast church and he's all oh, that'd be a about $390,000.
Speaker 2:And I'm thousand dollars and I'm like it cost m&m 390 thousand dollars a year to have a car. He goes no, that's next week's race. Wow, that's next week's race. That number. Now you can add another hundred thousand on it easily for sponsorship. He goes, that's next week. So then I was joking and I'm like well, what if north coast wants to be one of the little stickers back by the bumper? They're all covered. And he goes, you can do that for $75,000. And I'm all a week, that's once again, that's just next week's race, and I go. And if you guys come off the starting line and hit the wall and you go to the yard, he's all yeah, it's done. Same, it's not per lap, it's next week. And here's what I was thinking about when the guys are doing the decals no one has ever put the little sticker on top of the big sticker.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because the big sticker is sponsored the car.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You don't get that confused, and I think Christians and culture that's been my picture of going. We have got all the little stickers on the big stickers like crazy. We were bought with a price. We're made the image of that creator that bought us with the price. We are marked by him.
Speaker 2:It's okay to be political, it's okay to have your sports, it's okay to have your hobbies, it's okay to be involved in whatever. It's okay to have a ton of little stickers on the car, but the salt, the light, the big sticker is the one. And we're putting our politics on top of the M&Ms. We're putting some of our sports, we're putting whatever it is that Culture is killing our calling. We forgot I don't care what your culture looks like. You will walk in and walk out and people go. Man, I've never seen someone love like that. Now you can speak the truth in doing that. You can be involved in whatever you want to be involved in. But let's not get confused of who we represent, because when the little stickers are put over the big one, we might as well not go on the track.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's great, Obstructing the view of the big sticker, man, let's chase that a little right, like Chris.
Speaker 3:What would you say are the little stickers that Christians are wearing on top of the big sticker? That's tripping us up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say this Anything that is keeping you from acting like Christ in any situation. I've seen softball leagues be the little stickers. I've seen softball leagues be the little stickers. I've seen incredible men of God and women of God, people that go man, they're life group leaders and you see them in a city softball league and I go oh Lord, what the heck just happened because of that. Call on second base.
Speaker 2:I mean it can be as simple as something like that. Like, hey, I don't think there's a verse in the Bible that I have that says you can't play softball. How you play softball, I think, is going to be really important. But people, whatever passions now nowadays, the big one is is politics. We take the M&Ms off the car, we put our political sticker on the car and we make sure that if you know Christ and love Christ, you're going to have this sticker on your car too. And I'm just scratching my head going where, where in the world is Christianity gone in the midst of this culture? Divisiveness right now. But yeah, and whatever you do, whatever you eat, drink, whatever you cheer for you could be a Raiders fan, it could be whatever and just go great. Now does the big sticker show on your life when you're in that? Or is there ever anything in your life that go, man, I blow it in this area.
Speaker 3:You may want to just if you can't handle it, if you can't handle where the sticker belongs, you may need to walk away for good. That's good. I felt like that happened in the pandemic too. I felt like there were some fringes in a lot of churches for whom were so deeply for lack of a better word enslaved to some of the things Chris has talked about, with those little labels versus the Christ big label is how I'm hearing you explain that I think, and you know, an idol has to crush you before you leave it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:And I just remember our church was really trying to make sure we were just going to be on the Bible, we were not going to take sides with all that vaccine stuff and politics stuff. Hey, here's Jesus, here's what we're about. We had a lot of folks leave for whom we were not Republican enough. We have folks leave for whom we're not. We were not Democrat enough, and I've watched a lot of those folks because we love them who haven't come back to church. Yeah, right, yeah, and I think they picked their God, as it were, if that makes any sense, and I think some have repented and gotten like some wisdom and clarity and they're back and it's all good and are back in another church is just as good. But to Chris's point, that's the danger. It ends with that idol being crushed and if you're still worshiping that idol, you go to wherever that idol can be worshiped with like minds.
Speaker 2:Just to chase that metaphor a little bit, or we throw our let's let's kill this metaphor on the way up. We throw our M&Ms on our little stickers and that way we know. I mean, here's what amazed me Five years ago, looking at North Coast, we didn't have a single person that had a disagreement on vaccinations or on Fauci Center for Disease, on the pandemic, on mask or on politics. We didn't have a single disagreement on those issues. What I had was more people theologically upset than ever before. Their issue wasn't culture, their issue wasn't politics. They tied a theology to it which gave them the right to go to and fight your public school curriculum or your city council or your neighbor because it's standing for a Christian thing.
Speaker 2:And I felt like I haven't been around all that long in life. I'm 55 years old, but I felt like going into other elections, other things in my lifetime. You could have disagreements on politics or you could have disagreements on something. They're not. They're all theological nowadays. No one came to me with something unmasked it was. Let me tell you why. If you love children and God, you're going to do. No one had a problem with vaccinations. Just let me tell you why, biblically, we're supposed to. I don't have a single political issue at North Coast right now, but I have more theological issues based on their politics than ever before. If you were a real pastor, if you really knew the word, you would vote, you would act. You would say this on the weekend how dare you sacrifice our First Amendment rights?
Speaker 3:In other words, the idol, that framework right, that worldview is perceived through that label Yep and now I see everything through the lens of that instead of seeing things through the lens of Jesus has originally kind of ordained in the word yeah, that's good. I agree with that.
Speaker 2:It's on top of the sticker, yeah, and they're like, oh no, it's not this, it's spiritual. It's spiritual, it's theological, it's about being a. Christian and I'm like oh, my God.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it connects it to a deeper thing. To justify the position, right, you have to as a Christian, yeah.
Speaker 2:Because you know what you're fighting and it's got to be based on the Bible, otherwise, oh, I don't think pastors in our area telling the church if your pastor didn't go to Washington, if your pastor isn't going to the Capitol, they're not a true man of God and I'm like, yeah, all right, a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's where you're seeing a lot of people, like I had written down in here, deconstruct their faith. You know, ex-evangelicals and things like that. People are walking away. They're watching all of this infighting and some of this stuff and saying, yeah, I'm out or I don't want to be a part of that and so-.
Speaker 2:They're not walking away from Christianity, they're walking away from Christians. Yeah, exactly Because we've lost.
Speaker 1:our call yeah, lost our way yeah, oh man. Well, this is a little tangential, but I think it's important for this run as a leader. One of the biggest failures that you've made. That's a lot to sift through.
Speaker 3:Chris, are you sure you want? That I'm going to say true.
Speaker 2:Once again, true man. We can't even have a multiple choice.
Speaker 3:Everyone listening me and Chris are great friends and we do this to each other all the time, and this will be our last time.
Speaker 2:Okay, if we're talking, I don't know how we got into talking about the last four and five years of that, because I don't bring up pandemic anymore or church before 2009. Look who we are today and where are we going, folks. But there was a man that came back after about a year and a half who said I'd like to bring my family back to North coast. However, I need to have a meeting with you to find out if this is a church, it's going to be our home or not. And I'm like man, get in line, take a number. And so he came in with one of those big three ring binders paper, all papers in and I'm like this is going to be a while. And he sat it down and he opened it. He goes.
Speaker 2:Well, before I start, is there anything looking back over these last two years that you would admit to? Is there anything you could tell me in this meeting that you think you might have done wrong or would do differently? And I said no and he said so. And the two years of decision from pandemic to everything, race, everything. You don't think you've done anything wrong and I go. Oh no, you completely misunderstood my answer. You and I don't have enough time for me to sit down and process all the wrong decisions I made in just two years. I've made more bad decisions in two years than I've made in 32 years of ministry.
Speaker 2:Up to that point, and I said now, if you've got a binder full of a lot of them, I said, read them. I'll just sit here and shake my head and go. Man, I wish I could do that different. That was not our intent on that. One man did that. One backfire on us. I said so it's probably just to go through your binder, because if you want my list, we don't have enough time. And he looked around and he goes you're dead serious, and I go, I'm dead serious. And he closed his binder and he goes. Maybe that's all I need to hear. And I'm like wait a second. You thought this whole time I thought I've been right.
Speaker 2:You know how much pandemic training we had in seminary, you know how much I said and we made some of the no, not some. We've made the. The top six worst leadership decisions in North Coast all came in a year period. Wow, I would say probably top 10. I look and go man with what we know now. Here's what I would have done, but in the moment, Well, what did you learn from that?
Speaker 1:Where did it take you guys? Here's what I've learned.
Speaker 2:Churches moving forward, leadership moving forward. You've got to be nimble and you've got to have more voices than your own Now. Fortunately, at that time we had already kind of restructured our leadership where we had decision-making coming in circles. So I would still look and go. I think we made more good decisions than bad, but we made a lot of bad ones. But I know if it was up to me to make decisions, if I was leading North Coast, we would have tanked. I'd be out. You'd be interviewing a fisherman right now asking how that career's going.
Speaker 1:An avid fisherman right now asking how that career is going.
Speaker 2:And so for me, I mean the humility of Chris. You better have the spirit in your life and you better surround yourself with women and men on your leadership team that can really go into this. And then the act of just being humble and admitting and walking forward and going man, I blew that. I don't know what else you want me to say.
Speaker 2:I would drive my pickup to house after house after house where life groups were meeting, especially with men and women in law enforcement, just to apologize for a video we were putting together to talk about race and it backfired so bad it got one-sided. We weren't allowed to film segment two or three because at that time our streets were on fire and the men and women in law enforcement that I was going to record as a rebuttal to night one. So we had part one out there that just flamed law enforcement and I love our men and women who, day in and day out, protect and serve and put themselves on the line, and that's just one of the worst things that's ever happened in my life. Great intent, great desire and yet the outcome of that.
Speaker 2:So, I'm driving around just apologizing. Apologizing for, hey, here's what we did with masks, here's what we did. We were one of the last churches in North County to open, partly because at that time I think we had either seven or eight campuses Multiples of those were in schools or in business parks that we couldn't get into. I mean, we couldn't open if we tried. But people just felt like I hung them and their family and their First Amendment rights out to dry and I didn't care. Yeah, People just felt like I hung them and their family and their first amendment rights out to dry and I didn't care. And, yeah, a lot of humility. I think I walk with more of a limp now than ever before and I don't think I've fully recovered either. There's a sensitivity now to negativity and shots taken that hurts different.
Speaker 2:Cause it's still like and here's what I realized. Maybe, maybe you could write this oh, this sounds so bad, I don't care, it's your church listening to it.
Speaker 3:Mine won't listen to anything I do on a podcast, so I'm safe and ours don't listen to it.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's good, that's sick 30 of you. So I'm talking. Amy, april, if you clicked on this to see what your husbands were actually doing today.
Speaker 1:They're surely not listening.
Speaker 2:I have been a very well-liked guy my entire life. That was never something I sat down and said, have I or haven't I? But I learned through this period. Chris, you've been really well-liked your whole life and you've gotten into several years now where you aren't and I didn't know what to do with that. I realized I've been well-liked my whole life from a kid in school. I was a funny kid in class, a popular kid, a fun kid to have in class, great on sports teams, not athletically per se, but just I was good in the locker room. I've always been well-liked and I got into a season and it still continues in the size of church. You're leading Ricky us today just going. You can get 200 comments after a service how great it was or impactful, but these four emails are just stinging Totally. And how to get that tough skin and how to get your mindset to handle that?
Speaker 2:That's good it doesn't come easy Wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, the simple honesty and humility goes a long way, especially, and it totally puts on display authenticity, I think.
Speaker 2:And so.
Speaker 1:I've seen that too. The most humbling experiences have been the experiences that I've learned the most from. Seen that too. The most humbling experiences have been the experiences that I've learned the most from. And I've seen a lot too like even in my ministry. My short ministry is the perseverance piece just to be to endure. Everyone talked to me and they says, man, cj, you're so resilient in some of the things, even though I've gone through here at Southwest and stuff. But it's been so sweet to be able to navigate through that and end up being able to see the other side of it. And people are like man, we just wanted to see if you would stand back up. And that's what we're looking at. And they're like you know, keep going. So I have so many people in my court that are just cheerleaders to say and I, you know I was like man, what an encouragement. And some of those took a little bit longer than I.
Speaker 2:that felt good, but in the long run, but I'm just and if anyone's listening today and you've got a Christian leader at your workplace that you follow, you got a pastor in your life that you're under it, just encourage them. Whether it's an email up front afterwards, I've never heard a leader go. Man, I can't take any more encouragement. The next person that walks up and tries to encourage me, I'm going to kick them in the throat. I'm just done. You know, I'm too tired of people encouraging me.
Speaker 3:You just can't get enough and like we talked about in the beginning, in this culture.
Speaker 2:I found myself, for the first time ever, not liking our church. I've always had an issue with the church because of Christians, but I've always loved my church. But I found myself for the first time going I don't like our church because I'd let the negative in instead of focus on the positive.
Speaker 3:So that's good, wow, any thoughts?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know me and Chris have talked about these dynamics in private before. It's sweet for me, as a friend and brother in Christ, just to talk about it five years later instead of one year in.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I praise the spirit.
Speaker 2:We had long bad phone spirit. We had long bad phone calls. You're quitting because I'm quitting. If you're quitting, I'm quitting, we'll do something together.
Speaker 3:Well, chris talked me out of quitting twice. Right, like literally, there's no hyperbole, like I was there and just you know brotherhood. Right Just to see each other and be in there for one another, and I just praise Christ. I Right Just to see each other and be in there for one another and I just praise Christ. I loved what you said about. I think I still am kind of healing and recovering because I feel like I think that's true for me too, but, boy, there's definitely less sting on it today than there was even two years. It's just so. I praise the spirit for that and I think the only thing I would say is I mean all the same things, but I think Jesus is just dealing. I mean all the same things, but I think, um, you know, jesus just dealing with me about forgiveness and greatness Matthew 18, like what greatness is is forgiving people, and I praise the spirit that I'm looking less at them today, still looking at them, but I'm looking less at them and more at me. And that's never. I'm 47.
Speaker 3:I've never done that before in my sanctification to look more at me and I'm looking back at those moments and said it's all you use and I did that for years, but now I'm like man. You know I could have man. I wish I had that conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I could have handled that yeah.
Speaker 3:Man, I wish I had that conversation back. I could have handled that. Yeah, and I've. You know, we've apologized, we were all all as well, but it's just like, boy, that could have been a different kingdom opportunity that I didn't leverage.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you could recommend one thing, what would you? What do you think would be the most practical thing a person could do to increase their faith in their life? To increase faith in their life, like just one of those you know, I mean, let me be very, save your life. What one?
Speaker 2:thing hero is you're the Lord, your God. The Lord is one. Love the Lord, your God, with our hearts, soul, mind, and love your neighbors yourself. So when Jesus asks what's the most important thing, what one thing, he's like I can't give you one thing, and you know why I did that. How many lines can you draw through a single point? Yeah, infinity, yeah, infinity, infinity.
Speaker 3:Okay, I was going to say and so One Carry the two.
Speaker 1:I know the answer. I know the answer, jesus.
Speaker 2:Because if he gives you love God, then it was like oh yeah, I'm loving God. I'm loving God, love others. Okay, but how many lines can you draw through? Two points, just one. So he goes. Let me give you the true point, the two things you need. So if we take that today and go, okay, how do we do that? Are you in the word? And then, how are you applying that? By walking in spirit and loving others. That's it. You want to grow in your faith.
Speaker 2:People are always like, well, what good book have you read recently? Or what podcast are you listening to? And I always feel bad going. Can I bring back an oldie but a goodie Bible? Because people know what everyone else believes and people know what their favorite podcast or their favorite pastor believes. And I'm like do you know where? That's, even in the book? Yeah, I had her pastor recently. That was, he was doing a complex passage that had like four different curve balls and a fastball at your head in it, and I'm like you're going to tackle all this. And he did this line. He goes now, look you, you may disagree with this and you may come up afterwards and go now, where'd you get that? And he's let me tell you I've actually read the book, so if you're going to come up afterwards I can't remember where I heard that- oh yeah, it was at Southwest Church out in Indian West.
Speaker 1:It was a guy named Ricky Jenkins. Oh, I just heard. And it was last week's message.
Speaker 2:And when he tackled that Corinthians chapter on tongues and women in church and spiritual gifts. And it was so true because I'm like well, I know what this author said or what this book.
Speaker 3:Have you read the book?
Speaker 2:And there's something about God's word. Let me, whatever your favorite author is or podcast, I promise you it ain't a living word. It may be a good word, but ain't living. It can return. Void, it's not sharper than a two-edged sword.
Speaker 1:It's paper and I feel like we run to resources instead of the source.
Speaker 2:Oh, write that.
Speaker 1:We run to resources, there's nothing to write with.
Speaker 2:It's probably not original, but that's good.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, we run to resources and I go. How about the Lord You're?
Speaker 2:going to love God, then what do you do?
Speaker 1:How do?
Speaker 2:I practice the presence, that spirit of my life, and love people daily and I go, man. That's how Jesus answered the question, and so I'm going to stick with him. Yeah, that's so good, that's good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would say, oh, this is recorded.
Speaker 2:I'm going Babe. I said something in here.
Speaker 1:It's a resource for you now.
Speaker 3:Ooh, that's rich, it ain't living, and you know it's right. It's just not one thing. I would say that if your faith, your followership of Jesus, does not also incorporate the sense of expectation that what you are feeding on you are once one day supposed to feed with, and what I mean by that, that's a terrible metaphor, but everything you're getting from Jesus now in his word, everything you're getting from Jesus in the communion of the saints, everything you're getting from Jesus as you worship and as you show up, there's expectation that you are to give that away someday, and that is the continuity of our Christian witness. And I don't think enough believers incorporate this sense of expectancy that not only am I being brought up in discipleship, but there's this end point where I'm bringing others up in discipleship, and I think it ruins our witness. And it doesn't ruin our witness, but I think it ruins our potential ceiling, if that makes sense. So here's the thing Innately, inherently, coming up in my house, pearl, mississippi, it was always in the back of my head that one day I would have kids, like it was expected.
Speaker 3:It's just part of the cycle of life. It was part of this expectation that everything mama's putting on and everything daddy's saying and everything the preacher's saying and such and such. I grew up knowing that one day I would be responsible to pass this on to the next generation. It was just a part of my formation, understanding that I'm a conduit, I'm not an end zone. I'm not. I'm not an end zone, I'm not the end. All be all Like it is passing through, as it passed from my granddaddy down to my daddy and now to me. I will one day pass this down to somebody else and I think we do that in every sphere, or several other spheres other than our Christianity, and I think our faith would be so much more enriched. You know, you're that 16-year year old gal listening to the other six days and for some reason you are church rat. You are a nerd, you are. You stay in church because if you are on this podcast, you love everything about Southwest.
Speaker 2:So like you're listening to it because you've gotten to the bottom of the list, exactly Kerry Newhoff, such and such.
Speaker 1:CJ and Ricky.
Speaker 3:But my point is is that man.
Speaker 3:I just want that gal to know you're a leader and one day you're going to be raising up disciples in the Christian faith, and what does it mean then? To learn everything you're learning for you, but with this sense of expectancy that I'll be responsible for translating it onto the next generation. I think that's what my my point is this that's when my faith comes alive. So when I'm with my guys, now I'm going to get teary eyed. Okay, when I'm with my men, there is something else going on in my soul that doesn't happen when I'm just in church enjoying worship or listen to my podcast and, to some extent, reading my word. It is more powerful reading God's word with my men, because it is this dream that our Lord has dreamt, that it wouldn't stop with me, and so that's what I want to say to us and that increases my faith. So I haven't taught my disciples anything I didn't already know. I'm just repeating everything I already know. There's nothing new for me, but it's powerful and it changes me.
Speaker 3:One of my disciples, my dear brother in the faith, called me yesterday, going through a crux in his life and we talked about it. We were on the phone for 13 minutes 28 seconds. I made sure I looked at the time signature because it's one of the best conversations he and I ever had Told me what was going on. I said I understand that you get to feel that this is what scripture says Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's good. Got a siren, atta boy Press on and we're off the phone. And I just thought CJ this best did a podcast with Chris Brown this week. I did all sorts of things. I recorded devos. The best thing was sharing the wisdom of the gospel with my son in the faith and, I think, understanding that if that's part of your spiritual formation, you are.
Speaker 2:That's that I am closer to Jesus because I gave the gospel away this week, and why is it that, as men, so many times they feel so lost in doing that with their sons and daughters and I go.
Speaker 1:you already know how to do this.
Speaker 2:Like when I'm when I'm in church and I see this little seven-year-old and a five-year-old come walking through and they have Seattle Seahawk jerseys on. I know one thing about that family your daddy loves the Seahawks, Because there ain't no reason in Southern California there's two little seven to five-year-old walking around with Seahawk jerseys.
Speaker 2:When I see a young man open the hood of the car and he starts saying, I'm like, hmm, I bet your dad does something with motors and engines. He's got that. We pass on the things we're passionate about, we're excited about Our kids. Catch it from us why.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 2:Because we're the Right Spiritually, we've got to find a way of. Just so many men are like I don't know how to, you know, lead my boy in a discipleship, yeah.
Speaker 1:No no.
Speaker 2:When you're driving in the truck or in the car, you just go. Hey boy, you thought about God this week, yeah.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh. Let me tell you what I think about God during my week. Let me tell you what Dad did with him.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right. In the you think about our defense this week. We do it. The exact same. I think the enemy has caused men to think that spiritual discipleship is something different than just passing on your passion Now the question comes back dad, are you passionate about the Lord?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good, but if you are, just find ways. And I found I've never had a prayer time with my kids. I've never done a Bible study. They're 23, 21, and 19. By the grace of God and an amazing Jewish mom of theirs that I married a long time ago, all three of them are in church. All three of them serve in church. All three of them have a position not paid, but all three of them have a place where they're leading, worship or leading a small group and I go and I'm not forcing them at this age.
Speaker 1:I got no control.
Speaker 2:But I found throughout life I was just like hey, what'd you think about?
Speaker 3:God this week.
Speaker 2:Hey, what's the last time you leaned into him for something other than just a prayer before your meal, just talking like I do about everything else, and they pick up. That's important to dad. That's important to dad, that's important, that's gotta be important to me.
Speaker 3:There's somebody out there that looks at us as heroes, and what does it mean for me to think about them as I grow in my faith? How can this that's growing me in my faith grow, this person who looks at me and deems me to be a hero in their faith? And so Cam's 10 now flat football practice last night and he stops us from leaving the driveway. Dad, Dad.
Speaker 1:Dad, I forgot something.
Speaker 3:He runs in the garage, goes to get our two gloves and a baseball while we go to flag football practice because we got to get there early his coach doesn't play and I love that about his coach and we're just throwing the ball around playing catch before the practice starts, right, and then, like we're playing so much, we're so into it that we don't realize practice has started and his coach is yes, cam, get over here. It's just. I love that he's yelling at him.
Speaker 1:That's awesome and cam runs and goes.
Speaker 3:Does practice, decent, practice, decent football player he's not. You know, we probably ain't gonna get my house paid off from the NFL, but sorry, cam, by the way, I think you're amazing.
Speaker 2:I think you're great. I believe in you.
Speaker 3:Go ahead one person I know ain't listening to this. It is okay practice and it's dark. Now, right, like it's dark, it's time to go, and that dude runs full speed out of that practice, goes to grab those gloves. Dad, dad, let's finish playing catch. And I'm thinking this baseball's about to hit me in my eye socket. I'm going to be blind. But he was even more than playing with his buddies, he wanted time catching with his dad. And that's the power of what it means when somebody deems you to be a hero, like if they'll catch a ball from you, they'll catch the gospel from you is where I was trying to get to Dad.
Speaker 2:Write that down. Spirituality is not going to be taught, it's going to be caught. Yeah, just like you do with the ball and the glove Yellow. Oh, are we running down on time, or you got another?
Speaker 1:question. We're going it down here. Okay, we got like one more question to go.
Speaker 2:We're fine yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm worried. No, I see I piggyback off the both of yours because mine I've seen it lately, I don't just get into the word there was a point where I fell in love with the word. And so, when I fell in love with the word, I realized what it was really about to others. And so, once I put those two things together, I immersed myself into scripture so that I might give it away to the people around me. And so you guys, you know, you both said it. So the purpose of knowing more is so that I can do more with it through discipleship and others.
Speaker 1:And that's where I found out my son, my son, developed a faith of his own because I got excited about the word of God, because you know that the inner life impacts the outer life, and if I don't know that, that's where most guys, I think, get hung up. A lot is they're like well, I don't know everything there is to know about this word, so I don't feel equipped necessarily to pass it on. And you say you just got to start somewhere. Here's what I thought about God today. Here's what I'm learning right now. Here's what the Bible's teaching me.
Speaker 2:And make it life and easy. If you try to make it Bible study, then your boy or your girl's going to think oh, spirituality is something you have to sit down and take seriously. It doesn't really fit life. It's this weird thing we do Thursdays and.
Speaker 2:Saturdays and I go oh, this is the core, this is who is in your dad, shaping him to be the man he is today. And my life in Sam has changed because of that, and my kids will tell you. You ask them what's the most important thing your dad wants for you Jesus, what does your dad care about? Just be there.
Speaker 3:They'll say just be there.
Speaker 2:That's right. I don't care if you're homeless, I don't care if you go to college, I don't care what you work for the rest of your life, I don't care In heaven, just be there. That's right. I can live with 40, 50 years of disappointment in your career on GPA and we focus on the MVP and we better put it back on GOD. Otherwise, we're wondering why our kids are in their thirties and forties and they're not going to church and they don't talk to us and I'm like that was coaching.
Speaker 1:That's good stuff.
Speaker 3:That was too strong for someone else's church. Well, I just I'm sitting here thinking like how, how privileged we are to have a faith that we know and treasure, um, and how you know the that the master would put his trust in us and has sovereignly decided as broken vessels as we are, that they can get this done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Now I got to help them but they can get this done.
Speaker 3:I want somebody let's listen to hear that that the sovereign master of the universe says no, you got this, I'm going to help you, but you got this. And I think you know what's the old adage If not us, who? If not now, when?
Speaker 2:You are plan A for your son and daughter and there is no plan B.
Speaker 3:That's exactly right.
Speaker 2:Otherwise you're going to get poor substitutes like us, as pastors are trying to teach them.
Speaker 3:That's it, that's it, that's it. Well, you know me and you talk about this stuff all the time, but it's just like folks, I don't care how many these and thous you don't know, I don't care how many Greek words you don't know, I don't care about whether or not you understand what tulip is and the solas and the creeds. This gospel has largely been translated from generation to generation through people living in abject poverty, who are illiterate, who could barely make subject and verb agree, and yet the faith of the disciple stands today. My God, I know it's right.
Speaker 1:Well, guys, we're going to drop some.
Speaker 2:So good, southwest, encourage this man, because if he ever quits and I quit you'll have to visit us at our catfish pond, where we'll guarantee you'll catch white perch, a church plant in North Dallas.
Speaker 1:We're going to drop some helpful resources in the chat for you guys in description. We always want your question, comments and and feedback here at the Other Six Days.
Speaker 2:Do you really want feedback on this one? We do absolutely.
Speaker 1:We'd love to know what you guys are thinking.
Speaker 2:We do want to know what everybody's thinking.
Speaker 1:Besides the encouragement, we want to know how we're doing as well.
Speaker 3:Tell us how much you guys want Chris Brown to come back to the Other Six Days.
Speaker 1:You can email us at the other six days at southwestchurchcom, chris and Ricky any last comments before we wrap it up.
Speaker 3:Nope, I got one thing there it was, that was on my heart.
Speaker 2:Okay, then I'm going to follow it with something better. Go ahead. I believe the children are the future.
Speaker 3:Teach them well and let them lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside. Give them a sense of pride to make it easier.
Speaker 1:Let the children. Okay, we're going out of time here and Natalie's going to want to get in on that too.
Speaker 2:Okay let's beat that. I got a lump in my throat. I couldn't do this Please send your donations. That's like a beat that I got a lump in my throat. I couldn't do it. Please send your donations. That's like a beat up Into the other six days.
Speaker 1:Well, there you have it, guys. Thanks again for joining us on another episode of the Other Six Days podcast. Be sure to hit that subscribe, follow, share and like and, as always, spread the word. Take what you've heard and do it into something you can do to further the gospel.