The Other 6 Days
As the church, we spend most of our thought, time and effort working towards our weekend gatherings; with the majority of our lives being lived outside of Sundays. The Other 6 Days Podcast is designed to help us be more intentional about the ways we can "show up" for the gospel the other 6 days of the week.
The Other 6 Days
Calling All Men! | The Other 6 Days | Episode 53
In this episode, we get the privilege to connect with our very own Southwest Men's Pastor, Josh Johnson, as we talk about all things men. From family, vocation, culture, to faith, nothing is off limits as we tackle the touch downs and the fumbles as men who desire to lead lives that honor Christ & lead others to do the same.
SHOW NOTES & RESOURCES:
- Southwest Men's Ministry Opportunities - https://southwestchurch.com/get-involved/men/
- Kenny Luck - https://www.everymanministries.com/
- The Five Marks of a Man by Brian Tome: Finding Your Path to Courageous Manhood (https://a.co/d/6Usz0Xf)
- The Intentional Father: A Practical Guide to Raise Sons of Courage and Character by Jon Tyson (https://a.co/d/2jo5ArP)
- Mark Buchanan - The Rest of God (Sabbath / Rest)
- The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry - John Mark Comer (Sabbath / Rest)
- Emotionally Healthy Spirituality, Updated Edition - By: Peter Scazzero
- Emotionally Healthy Relationships - By: Peter & Geri Scazzero
- Voice of the Heart - Chip Dodd (A Man and His Emotions)
- Rich Villodas - The Deeply Formed Life
For more information or to join the conversation, head over to https://southwestchurch.com/theother6days or email us at theother6days@southwestchurch.com
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Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Other Six Days podcast, where we chat about life outside of Sundays and what it means to live from our gatherings, and not just for them. I'm your host, cj McFadden, and I'm here today with our very own men's pastor, josh Johnson. Josh, welcome, thanks, cj. Yeah, it's going to be a good conversation today, and so on today's episode we're tackling everything from touchdowns to fumbles in family, faith, work and culture. Nothing is off limits. But before we jump in, josh, you know you've seen our podcast before, but we typically kick things off with a little game for our guests, and today we're playing what I think is particularly well suited for you, called man card. Keep it or cut it, good game Good game, I like this.
Speaker 2:It sounds good already, right? Yeah, good game, I like this.
Speaker 1:It sounds good already, right, yeah, all right. So I'm going to share some scenarios and you say whether you think it constitutes being allowed to either keep your card or being required to cut it.
Speaker 2:Are you ready?
Speaker 1:Okay, I think I'm ready, all right, here we go, let's begin. You own more skincare products than tools. Cut it, I mean, come on, right, I agree.
Speaker 2:That's good. I concur If you own more than soap.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like a 19 all-in-one skin wash hair gel body, full body and hair wash. Exactly, and degreaser. You've never learned how to change a tire.
Speaker 2:Oh, cut it. Come on, really Come on. That's the basic skill. I had to do that before I even got my license.
Speaker 1:Yeah, If I get a good, if you get a good excuse, you know like a legitimate, then you know, maybe it's negotiable, right, Maybe Sure, Sure.
Speaker 2:Maybe, maybe, all right, maybe I'm like negotiating with you over it.
Speaker 1:You can quote every Star Wars, but not a single scripture.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Come on, I mean cut it, but I mean Star Wars is fun.
Speaker 1:It's good yeah.
Speaker 2:You should know more scripture than you know Star Wars.
Speaker 1:You should know both but Right More than but more scripture yeah.
Speaker 2:You don't know a single scripture, not a single one. I mean, come on, jesus wet, everybody knows that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's easy. Now Bake them, barbecue, cut it. Oh Really. Well, I don't know. I mean, I'm just, you know, hey, I'm a kind of a what do you call it? A neutral party here. Sure.
Speaker 2:No, you're a man, come on. Come on, you got to have barbecue tools.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm not the best barbecuer in the world, but barbecue over baking all day.
Speaker 2:I don't know how to bake anything and I can barbecue. So there you go.
Speaker 1:But all right, all right. Thank you, we should have had them out on the counter like for it.
Speaker 2:You're like, yeah, each one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go um, you've never seen brave heart. Oh, cut it. Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with that one like that's because that's got it's sentimental, it has everything. Yeah, everything, yeah I'm gonna agree with you um using bro and blessed in the same sentence.
Speaker 2:I mean so blessed. That's tough, yeah, I mean they're both good right? Everybody says bro these days especially my children.
Speaker 1:Maybe just like a punch on the card.
Speaker 2:There you go, there you go. We got to have like a third option in there. I like that one.
Speaker 1:Okay, you've worn socks and sandals proudly, proudly, yeah, like you're just owning the socks and sandals.
Speaker 2:I mean, I know a lot of dads that would do it. That's what I mean. Yeah, yeah. So dad's fine right, yeah, I mean I think.
Speaker 1:There's scenarios, there's an age, there's an age or a stage of life. Maybe We've had some youth. They can pull off socks and sandals it's culturally, it's a thing, it depends.
Speaker 2:Okay, it depends, then I guess. All right, maybe a punch on that one.
Speaker 1:You have a Pinterest board, but it's for workshop tools and outdoor grill ideas, oh so.
Speaker 2:Pinterest, but you know, yeah, it's still Pinterest. I mean, I think you're fine, I think you're okay. Okay, I think you're okay, yeah, you can keep it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've got to see the tool ideas. You're on the edge. Yeah, I like this one Using LOL rather than a thumbs up emoji.
Speaker 2:No, don't do that.
Speaker 1:No, I look back at my text and it's just straight thumbs ups all the way across. You know you can name your team stats and standings, but you can't remember your anniversary.
Speaker 2:Oh man, I mean, that's a tough one. That's a tough one. But I mean, if you're going to be good to your wife, you should remember your anniversary right. Even if it's just for her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's true. I'm going to agree with you on that one. Um, I'm not saying it's easy, but I'm saying do it.
Speaker 2:Right, right.
Speaker 1:Asking for instructions on your home project at Home Depot I mean guilty. Yeah, hey you wouldn't happen to know how to install this faucet right, right.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's certain things that we don't all know how to do, and they are experts.
Speaker 1:Especially on those like specialized, you know types of things Exactly. You're like, hey, have you ever worked with like soldering copper?
Speaker 2:Right, I mean, where do you find that at?
Speaker 1:Exactly Wearing Crocs, but in sport mode. Oh, they got to be in sport mode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, and that's fine, right, keep your. Yeah, keep it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as long as you're sport mode, that's good. You purchased a scented candle for yourself, but it's rustic tobacco or wood smoke bourbon.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, come on, if you're buying a mandel at all I can't believe I never heard of that. A mandel, oh my goodness, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:So, but you can't buy what if someone else buys it? They can buy it for you, okay, but just you can't buy it on your own. Okay, perfect all right, that's good to know. Good clarification um hurting yourself when proving to the young bucks that you still got it I mean, I think that's a rite of passage for everybody, really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you get another card, you double up on your card. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:You know, your Starbucks order better than your vehicle's oil change schedule.
Speaker 2:I mean, if your Starbucks order is more than black coffee, we need to have a talk.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Me and Danny are like uh-oh, Uh-oh.
Speaker 1:Danny's running the studio for you guys, for those of you out there that don't know it, and we both order foofy drinks at Starbucks. See, cut it, sorry, sorry. You count steps and close rings on your watch and you call it cardio Cardio. I don't know if I go for it, but I call it cardio. You know, you're like, you're like 16, I did it.
Speaker 2:I did nothing all day yeah, so I don't think that? Yeah, I don't think that you, yeah, um two more. You cried during a hallmark movie and it wasn't even christmas I mean the fact that you have a hallmark movie on and you're watching it.
Speaker 1:Come on well, okay, so you know, there's like that where you're like, what are you watching, you know, and then you gradually make it over to the edge of the couch.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Kind of behind the couch. Then you sit down on the couch. You know, just general interest, and before you know it, you've watched the whole thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it sucked you in, yeah. Yeah yeah, you're still not sure, I'm still not showing that one, I can't. My wife exclusively watches home movies. Yeah, and I've done exactly, but I can't help the mst3k commentary in the background like here's what's gonna happen next.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, yeah, so I mean, if you're doing that, keep it, but if you're like genuinely interested, what's gonna happen?
Speaker 1:next, like a guy moves from the city into the country and it's a yeah, you know, you know the kind of the plot of the whole thing. So actually that's probably bad, that I already said that I outed myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all the same all right.
Speaker 1:Last one, uh, wearing a fanny pack, but it's camo pattern I mean, are you just doing daily life or are you out in the wilderness?
Speaker 2:there is a functionality to a fanny pack, especially a camo one situational's situational.
Speaker 1:Right, it is situational. You're just out, like you keep your keys in it.
Speaker 2:You're just out and about. No, cut it, light it on fire.
Speaker 1:That was the clincher right there. Oh man, that's awesome. Thanks for playing that was really good.
Speaker 2:That's a good game. I like that game. You don't have to do that at.
Speaker 1:So, josh, give us a quick introduction, a little background on you, your passion, your calling. You know just a little bit about who you are.
Speaker 2:Sure, I mean geez. For much of my life I said I would never be a pastor, and now here I am sitting in the pastor seat, which is just shocking to me, but I mean behind the scenes, like I think God has set me up for it my whole life and just tried to.
Speaker 2:He hasn't tried. He's done it very well of just showing me where I need to grow and be stronger so that I can lead men to him, because that's really what my passion is. Over the years, what I've realized is that, more than anything, pastor for me isn't. I'm not a preacher. I don't shy away from the stage often, but but to sit down and have a conversation like this with somebody, especially if there's a cup of coffee or something, then that's what God made me for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's who I am. At the end of the day, that fires you up, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Besides that, I mean anything face to face is great, but anything shoulder to shoulder.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Outside, get me on a bicycle seat or get me running, or get me hiking or rock climbing or anything with the tinge of adventure, and I'm in.
Speaker 1:You're in.
Speaker 2:Especially if there's somebody cool and fun to do it with. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Tesla and father family.
Speaker 2:Yep. Father to Gigi, the women's director around here, yep, and then father to two kids, 14 and nine. One just graduated eighth grade yesterday, which is shocking to me Word of the last 14 years ago Exactly. But yeah, I mean, I love my family and love just hanging out with them, and anything I can do to spend more time with them I will, that's awesome, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, so men and men's ministry obviously you just mentioned it as a topic that's close to both of our hearts. I'd love for us to start a conversation around the idea of manliness, being a man becoming real men, manning up all phrases we've heard through culture and all around. These are often assumed to be just eventual milestone moments. I think of age and maturity. So what does this really mean and what might it look like, both biblically and practically? And you know, I don't know. Let's talk about it. Yeah, I mean geez With.
Speaker 2:I mean that subject is all over the place these days, yeah With. What does it mean to be a man? And how do you be manly? And I think a phrase that really kind of sums it up for me and I've used it with a very small handful of people in my life which is being a man means being steel wrapped in velvet.
Speaker 1:Oh nice.
Speaker 2:You've got to be tough. You've got to be strong, yeah, especially for the people around you and the people that God's placed in your life to protect yeah, but at the same time, you have to be compassionate and you have to be emotional and you have to be willing to feel all those things, but at the same time I mean, it's it, I will. I'll say it this way for much of my life, I was a guy that ran away from battle.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And now that I've figured out what God made me for and who God made me now? Uh, being a man means being able to run to battle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, I love that dude, I love that's such a steel wrapped in velvet, right, yeah. Yeah, it's such like a cause I realized that too like it's not either or it's a both, and, and you know we tend to shy away from one or maybe lean more towards the other. But finding out, really like calling identity purpose all those things, and stepping into those, allows you and I think too, as we step more towards maybe what we call manly moments or, you know, opportunities to, you know, really engage with in battle, yeah, then we can temper those things with what else is needed, right. Yeah, Different situations call for us to show up differently, right, and so that's just part of Christian maturity and being a man.
Speaker 2:Right, absolutely. Yeah, you have to know what God made you for, so you have to know your identity in Christ. Yep, and once you've figured out this is what God made me for and where he's taking me, then all of the things surrounding it just kind of fall into place. Right, and you're. You're a guy that can run to battle.
Speaker 2:You're a guy that can hug your wife and cry emotionally if you need to. You know all of those things and be there for your kids and let them see not only the manliness and the tough guy exterior but, also that soft core that you have.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Which really is. It's the heart of God.
Speaker 1:Yep, exactly, and managing all that with confidence, but not arrogance, right, yeah, that's a fine line, yeah, yeah. So maintaining that like, hey, we're like, well, I know how God wired me and I'm pretty sure of how he's built me and what he's built me for, yeah, and so we can step into that and but not carry it to with, you know, like with a heavy hand, right, right. So, yeah, there's a balance there. And that's kind of the journey we're on.
Speaker 2:Absolutely and helping other men. How do you balance you know that that tough, manly guy that you know, the soft guy that is needed from time to time, yep and the guy that needs to be able to feel, and not only feel but express how he's feeling?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Well, and following and modeling Christ's example right Right Through sacrifice and selflessness. And then we talk about humility, and humility is one of my favorite because, like we've talked about it before in here, but it's always deemed as like weakness for most guys and I love, like I kind of I've looked into this a little bit and I really love that I feel like Jesus displayed humility. It's a it's, it's more of a it's power restrained, so it's not that it's being, it's being held back, it's you contain it and you have it, but it's distributed appropriately Right Cause he had all power and all authority, but yet he did it in such like, in each moment required something different from how he showed up.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so.
Speaker 1:I mean, what a perfect model, right yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean geez, if only I could do all the things that he did, right, I know I'm like, oh man, that's my life's pursuit, right there, right and for sure.
Speaker 1:I mean we all lose our are cool every once in a while and the man child shows up and expresses his anger, I would say, yeah, the toddler comes out and we just see red. Yeah, oh, man. So we're aware of traditional societal roles have been shifting for a while now, you know, both for good and bad. Women often desire men to be bold, confident, hardworking, decisive providers and to step up and be the spiritual leaders of our households and families. And, uh, but they'd also like them, like we were talking about, to be sensitive, thoughtful, communicative and introspective. So the question is and becoming healthier men, husbands and fathers, and even friends, how can we embrace manliness without being misogynistic? So it's kind of, you know. Is it better to lean more mass? You know we talk about this masculine or feminine, Obviously, I know what we'd say on that one. But if so, how do we balance this without being soft and passive or indecisive and all those things that come with it?
Speaker 2:Do you know what I mean? Totally, I mean. I think the word that I would use most would probably be sincerity. Oh, that's good, I like that you have to be sincere, yeah, if your wife has a bad day and she tells you that on the drive home and you're like, well, I'm going to run her a bubble bath and I'm going to get her flowers. If that's not her love language, then it's just placating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true, man, that's good.
Speaker 2:And so I think the balance is okay. Well, if she has a bad day, how do I care for her in the way that she feels cared for, and be sincere while doing it? I think that's really what it is, Because oftentimes I think our manliness, in our effort to be for the other person, comes off selfish and it comes off insincere, in such that they don't. They're like you don't care for me, you only care for how I respond to it.
Speaker 1:Oh, got it. Yeah, and that's not what we want, yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah. And that's not what we want? Yeah, right, yeah. And so I think if again it goes back to the identity that we have in Christ, if we have that identity in Christ and we know what we're called to, then we can step into that in a sincere way and be able to care for not only your wife but your friend who's struggling, yeah, your male friend who's struggling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it gets across the board. I think back to a few years ago when I lost a job, covid and lost a job I absolutely loved yeah, absolutely loved Was like this is the perfect job for me. I love working there, I love going to work every day, and then COVID took it all away. Oh, two of my best friends called me the next morning when.
Speaker 2:I would be going to work and they were like how are you? What's going on? How do you feel? I know you're not scared, but how do you feel about all this? And, man, within seconds I was in tears, Just like man. I didn't know I was feeling all this, Thank you, but they were in such a sincere way. They were just wanted to know how I was and were caring for me.
Speaker 2:And I was like, wow, looking back at that, I'm like I'm so glad that they did that, yeah, and in such a healthy way. It because typically, as men, it's like how?
Speaker 1:are you? I'm good, all right in the conversation and done.
Speaker 2:We check the boxes right and I think we often do that with our wives. Yeah, they ask how are you? And we say I, I'm good, yep, I'm guilty of it, yeah, you know. But we often, I think you know, listening to the women's podcast, yeah, they want to know what's going on inside, yeah, and not just the rough exterior that we show and the Superman cape that we wear on a day-to-day basis to make sure that everybody else is doing well, to make sure that everybody else is doing well. They want to know how we're really doing. And so I think, um, kind of going back to your question of what, what is that that? I think it's, it's the sincerity of it all. Yeah, it's okay to struggle and it's okay to show that you struggle in a sincere way, and it's also okay to care for somebody in a sincere way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love dude, I love that so much. I love the word, the language that you use for that Cause, sincere way. Yeah, I love dude, I love that so much. I love the word, the language that you use for that Cause. I I've, you know, I've sat back and said what is it about that situation? You were talking about your friends coming alongside you. You know like what, what was that?
Speaker 1:That meant so much to me and it totally is that genuine sincerity, that checking in Cause that comes with a presence, right, right, that comes with a. I'm going to put my needs aside which again, and this is all biblical, other-centric focus to say, hey, I'm going to check it, I genuinely want to know what's going on. We don't know what that might require in that interaction, but you're going to say, hey, and especially with your wife, like you said, it's so funny draw her a bath and light a candle for her, and that's not her love language or she doesn't like that, and you're doing it because of. I guess the question would be why do we tend to do those types of things? Are we just repeating things we see in culture, or maybe things that we've been taught?
Speaker 2:I mean that's a great question. I don't know. I think that's probably part of it. Yeah, I think Growing up, especially in the 80s, that's what everything showed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's how you were. You know, you bring flowers home to your wife every day.
Speaker 2:And that makes her feel oh, thank you.
Speaker 1:He's a great husband.
Speaker 2:You know what Flowers die? My wife hates flowers. Yeah, I thought my wife did for ages. She doesn't I royally screwed that up. Yeah, you didn't bother to find out because you assumed she felt like you did, right.
Speaker 1:But a genuine interest in someone else finding out. Oh actually, hey, she does care about these things right and that kind of changed the dynamic in your relationship, then I would assume right, because you're able to figure out. You know you're like, hey, she cares about this thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, my job is to go and do those things now and I don't do that well, Well, that's a whole nother, that's a whole nother podcast Actually.
Speaker 1:So we have like intentions and then we have our actions. I'm like well, don't you know my heart and my intentions are great, but like my follow through not so good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Especially with my language right. Don't you know what I meant? I know that's not how I said it, but that's what I meant. And now you're prickly already. Oh my gosh, now you're both hugging a porcupine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, oh my gosh, we could go off on this for a while I also think, in that, too, a lot of this is, you know, as we talk about humility and self-control and really, like you know, I want to hone in on this because, in modern culture, like we definitely want to be more communicative and know our feelings and our emotions.
Speaker 1:I think that's really really helpful and healthy, but also too, like we said, not being soft and passive, and I don't think that those all have to go together. We kind of just we either throw the baby out with the bathwater or we lump them all in together, and so I think we do ourselves a disservice by assuming that some of those traits are not things that men should carry, and so I like to try to break that down a little bit, because, you know, we read about Galatians 5, right, the fruits of the spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness All those things seem very light and fluffy, yeah, you know, but they're actually the things that, like from Gigi's podcast and stuff that they just did, like that's what women are looking for is for us to show up in those ways right, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think for men we are. We have base emotions, right. We're hungry, we're angry.
Speaker 1:We're lonely, we're tired.
Speaker 2:Right, you know I don't feel good. I do feel good. You know it's simple, but it doesn't. It's not always helpful.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, my wife will ask me how are you feeling? I'm good. No, no, no, no, really, how are you feeling?
Speaker 1:I'm like oh, how am I feeling?
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh, how am I feeling and I have to kind of think back. Okay, well, I'm tired, but it's not because I got too much sleep or not enough sleep, it's because I'm worn out, I'm emotionally drained, I've extended my finish line and then some, and so I have to be able to explain all those things. Now we have, through counseling and other things, we've acquired some tools, and one of them is a list of emotions.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, oh, where's the emotions list Now? Granted, I've never said this, but in my brain I've said what are those lists of emotions? Yeah, can I go through there, I'm not angry.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm a little bit upset. I'm a little bit irritated, I might even be slightly annoyed, not angry. Yeah, I'm a little bit upset, I'm a little bit irritated, I might even be slightly annoyed, and all of those things kind of break down like where I am on the angry scale.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah you know why am I this way?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I am not Hulk, but I'm also not Ant-Man, so Well, and to know yourself that well uh allows you to show up for others better right Because if you cause, if you can identify that, then you're like Hmm, cause, normally we would just grind through that, right, like we're like, well, it doesn't really matter, I've got things to do and stuff to get done and responsibilities, right. So it's so easy to just kind of push that stuff off. But if we can wrestle with that and go, hmm, maybe that's what is going on in my life, and then now you're able to like either fix it, try to do something about it, you know, get counseling, whatever it requires, and then you can show up better for other people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I had a thought and it escaped me. But that's OK, we'll get to it, it'll come back there. Yeah, we often have those base emotions and we often think so logically. There's my thought. We often think so logically that emotions don my thought. We often think so logically that emotions don't play a part into it.
Speaker 1:Got it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, as men we want to. It's either fixed or it's broken.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2:You know, and so I think, a lot of times taking a step back or at least pausing and saying well, it is broken, but why?
Speaker 1:is it broken? Yeah, why is?
Speaker 2:it broken? And if it's broken in this way, what do I need to do to?
Speaker 1:fix it.
Speaker 2:You know, we can think about emotions logically, and which doesn't always play well, whenever you're talking to a woman, we process a little slower, right, so I often have to like pause. Yeah, just be like. Okay, give me a sec to think about this yeah because I think have you seen the? The video of, uh, the guy that that is her, his wife is saying she has a headache and he's trying to figure out why.
Speaker 1:And then she's got the nail in her head. That's finally and he's like just pull the nail out, you know, and it's trying to fix me Right.
Speaker 2:But it's not that simple as having a nail or not having a nail. It's oftentimes it's like it's so much deeper and have gotten into the practice of asking why? Why a lot? That's really good, you know. Are you hungry?
Speaker 1:I'm hungry. Why are you hungry?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't eat anything all day. I mean that one's a simple one, but why are you angry, yeah?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I don't know why I'm angry.
Speaker 2:Well, the kids irritated me, or I had a bad day at work Okay, but why?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is such great insight because, like I would say, even for me, like you know, I don't ask that simple question. We, we just assume, well, something happened, right. But when you can identify it too, like cause, a lot of times it'll be projected and then the other person will think, well, what did I do? Or do you know what I mean? That maybe it's and you're like, no, it was another circumstance, Cause. Often we'll find in a fight, right, we come back and say you know what? Actually I realized that I was angry because you know I was driving home and somebody cut me off or something like that and I got home and didn't you know yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So, and not that that takes away from your responsibility and how you responded, but there's something there Like it didn't have anything to do with something going on between the two of you. Right, that was just kind of the icing on the cake of all the whys beforehand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, take of all the whys beforehand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think the why is so much is such an important question, huge, and I think the more especially as men, in that logic frame that we tend to stay in if we can ask ourselves why more often, especially before your wife or your loved one asks you.
Speaker 1:That's a little late.
Speaker 2:Yes, then you can begin to understand yourself a little bit more, like I'm pretty good at processing my emotions and realizing okay, well, I need to hold on to this one because it matters in the thing that I'm doing, this one. I don't need to feel like I'm not good enough because so-and-so said I wasn't good enough. I am good enough, yeah, and their opinion might be their opinion. It might be true, but is it true? Let that might be their opinion. It might be true, but is it true? Let me do the deep dive on that before I get to everything else that might set off. If that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yep, no, it does. I think that's really helpful.
Speaker 2:Ask the why before your wife asks.
Speaker 1:That's what I took away from that conversation. So let's get into some fumbles and touchdowns as men who desire to lead lives that honor Christ and lead others to do the same, especially for the roles that we sit in. Let's tackle those topics that we see some opportunities to help men either avoid, learn from or grow from. So just some areas where we see men fumbling it and some opportunities that they might grow up a little.
Speaker 2:Oh man, there's so many, so many, so do we have time for that? How deep, do we have time for that? How deep do we want to go? The biggest one that I've seen over the years is work. Yeah, and a lot of guys. When I say work, it's for a lot of guys that means, well, I'm providing, I'm making X amount of money and blah, blah, blah, blah. But at the end of the day, are you showing up for your family? Yeah, yeah, so yeah, you're providing, but you're not there for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And what, what do? They want they want you to be there for them. Yeah, and my guess is that there's. If you have a healthy marriage, your wife is going to say I would rather have less money and more time with you, or more of you in that way, and so it's not always. I think we were made to work, men. You know, um, biblically speaking, we were made to work.
Speaker 1:There's a Genesis, the whole beginning part of the book.
Speaker 2:But um, we often I think we take that too far. Yeah, Now we love it. And I'm not saying, don't work.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:By any stretch of the imagination. But I think we often take that work piece too far and we become our work, yeah, in such a way that it detracts from what God wants for your family and even if you're not married, it takes away from what God wants for your life.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He wants you to work, but he wants you to work for him, yep, and he wants you to work to gather others and share his good news with them, not just make dollars and cents all the time.
Speaker 1:Yep. Sometimes we just need to make sense. That's good.
Speaker 2:I see what you did there and we just need to pour into the relationships around us. We need to pour into ourselves and we need to pour into what God's called us to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that brings up a really good point about balance in our lives, right? Like you said, we have a tendency, I would see in that to slam the needle in one direction or the other. Right, either all work or no work, right? Do you know what I mean? Like it's completely vacated, escapism all of that stuff and get out of it. Or workaholism, you know what I mean? Like we're like, hey, it's either on or it's off, right, but balance is key, right, and all of that.
Speaker 2:Balance is key. I mean, I don't think there's a marriage out there or a relationship period out there that says I want you to work for, you know, 50 weeks a year and go on vacation for two where I get you for two weeks. Yeah, see you then?
Speaker 1:Yeah, see you in 50 weeks. We just had a good time. See ya, just make sure you send the checks. Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, there's no healthy relationship that works like that.
Speaker 2:And so if you're working, you know, 80, a hundred hour weeks. Sometimes it's called for don't get me wrong. But if you're doing that constantly just so that you can quote, unquote, provide for your family, then your balance is way off, your priorities are off.
Speaker 1:That's good, I almost think like a good barometer. Or a good thing to bring up might be to say what does provision look like in your family? Because really there's a definition of provision, right, Because we're like well, I'm a provider because I provide financially for my family, so if I can show up for that at max capacity, then I'm winning right. But provision to them, like you said, might be that they want more of your time and that might look different friendships, relationships with your wife, your kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it goes well beyond marriage or even physical attraction relationships. It's more just time with anybody. God calls us to have more time with him because he wants some of that. He's our provider, so let's spend time with him, exactly. So how can we be that provider to someone else if we're not spending that time with him?
Speaker 1:Exactly that's what he wants from us. Right I time and attention. Right, that's what everyone wants from us.
Speaker 2:That's what we all want and desire for ourselves.
Speaker 1:I wrote down that it's extended adolescence for me some areas that I see men fumbling it. Don't worry, We'll get to some areas that we're seeing men score some touchdowns.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but extended adolescence they call it Peter Pan syndrome, yeah, or I call it the Ma. Where's my Meatloaf phase, video games, escapism and hobbies, and it's a little touchy for me, but just got done. Raising teen, everything's great, my son's great, but there's a little bit of that there where I was a little bit nervous about the video game piece, but a lot of that it's a me time becomes into a majority of our time. So, like we said, where we're like, hey, I just need a break, I need to decompress, but then it becomes like that's our life's pursuit is to really get out of all responsibilities. Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2:I think we all love a bit of escapism, whether that's video games or whether it's going out for something athletic or you know one of the movies or whatever it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but when it, when that escape thing becomes the main thing, you're doing it wrong, yep.
Speaker 1:You know and.
Speaker 2:I think you're a hundred percent right. I've seen that many times where you'll have a 35-year-old 13-year-old. When I got home I'm just playing video games, my wife's yelling at me saying dinner's ready. And I'm like I don't hear him because I got the gaming headset on and I'm going into battle or whatever it is.
Speaker 1:And so, yeah, another form of not being present, right, and, like you said, sincerity. All that gets missed there because you're not available, right? So, and then that leads into, you know, I call it decompressing versus obsessing, or, you know, overindulgence, and pleasure versus pain avoidance. So you know, we're we're not designed to live lives in constant pursuit of anything outside of our dependence and delight in Christ.
Speaker 1:So we were wired that way, right, yeah. And so too much of anything can become a bad thing, right, too much of anything, except for Jesus, I think. But anyway, yeah, probably At the core of that. So let's talk about some with this. Maybe in that same area it's some intergenerational I call it intergenerational opportunities and antidotes. So what are some things that you think like we might? I don't know that we can just encourage some other guys maybe with that that we've noticed and just say, hey, like what are, what are some ways that maybe guys could show up in that?
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's. It comes down to again we were talking about having your escapism be your main thing. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with escapism. Who are you doing it with and why are you doing it? Yeah, right, you know, never met your, your battle buddies. That's online that you're going into call of duty with, or whatever like that's good.
Speaker 2:that's probably not the healthiest of all relationships, yeah, but you know, if you got a few buddies that come over on the occasion, yeah, and they all sit around and we guys share, share stories or go do something fun, like I think that's a healthy way of escapism, that's also building each other up. Yeah, you know, I think men connect indirectly before they connect directly. We connect shoulder to shoulder before we connect face to face.
Speaker 1:Face to face, right Anybody.
Speaker 2:I've ever met any of my best buddies before we get into this type of?
Speaker 1:How are you feeling? Yeah. How are you feeling it's like you want to go do something fun, yeah, or stupid, yeah. How are you feeling it's like you want to go do something fun, yeah. Stupid, yeah, yeah. Which is both, yeah, one is one of the same.
Speaker 2:But I think that escapism doesn't have to be escapism into something else. It can be escapism into a healthy thing, yeah, meaning when you have a community of men that you're around and you're all got each other's backs and you guys are all looking out for each other and in a lot of different areas, especially spiritually, but whenever you've got all that, you can escape with them and also have it be something that they're pouring into you and building you up in, and then that leads to kind of like, you know, going back to that provision part, and then that leads to kind of like going back to that provision part. They'll know whenever you're not being the provider in the biblical sense that you should be, and they're going to call you out on it and they're going to encourage you on how to do it better. Yeah, that's true, and it's not just well, I won Call of Duty today or whatever it is. I've never played in my life.
Speaker 2:But it's not just that. Oh, I got all the aggression out over there in an unhealthy way and getting it out is healthy, but not in the correct way, but getting it out by pouring it out to a brother and say, man, I had a hard day at work today and this sucks, and you know I'm not getting along with my wife and my kids are irritating me and all those kinds of things, and they can go. Oh man, I'm really sorry, but here's try this, yeah, try this in an encouraging way, you know. Spend more time with them instead of less time. That's going to help build your relationship and make those things easier, all those kinds of things. I think there's a good balance of having a term I heard recently cave time going out and having that time for yourself. Right, you need, you need to put the oxygen mask on first, um, but I think there's a good balance of doing that. It's so that you can be more for everybody else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Yep, I've heard that too. Yeah, I love that. I think there's some uh, there's something to. I encourage the guys to just some intentionality, even in like, so let's say, maybe let's just for the sake cause I don't play video games either but for the sake of uh proximity that you can't have, that you know, face to face probably won't be a thing, but I just say there can even be some intentionality there to just go a little bit deeper wherever you're at do you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like at some point the relationship needs to progress, whatever that might look like.
Speaker 1:If you want it to be anything of substance right outside of it just being gaming, and that might, that might just be the case.
Speaker 1:But I just encourage guys to just go a little bit deeper in some of your relationships, take an opportunity just to get outside and say, hey, what's going on in your life, just to have some concern, right, yeah, and say you know that even can be started from a conversation, and I'd say most of my relationships and other guys that I know, like you said, it's been built shoulder to shoulder. We started out golfing, right, we're out doing something together, getting to know each other, and then some of those things have turned into hey, let's hang out and go have a meal together in the clubhouse and let's find and grant and you know naturally that's going to take another course and say like, hey, who are you? What are you about? You know what you know? You start to find out who they are through those things, yeah, and so it starts off more affinity and then moves actually more into you know no-transcript as you watch the show.
Speaker 2:They're all really friends and they are all involved in each other's lives and it's less about why they're there than who they're with With. Yeah, you know, and I think that's that's for me is key, even in my own relationships, is like I could go out and do anything. Like I really stop you approach me with something that I'm not interested in remotely. Yeah, but tell me that you're going to do it with me. Yeah, but tell me that you're going to do it with me. Yeah, I'm in All right.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? Yeah, like you want to go jump off an airplane by myself.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Yeah, with you, sure.
Speaker 1:Let's go do it.
Speaker 2:We're going to go, like I have a good buddy and he plays Dungeons and Dragons and loves it. Yeah, I have zero interest in it there. And like, would you do it with me? Yeah, like, if I invited you in, I'm like, yeah, I'd do with you. Yeah, you want to go larping?
Speaker 1:heck, no, I didn't know where you drew the line on that I was gonna ask you to go crock shopping at marshalls and see only if it's in sport mode. Yeah, oh, we both lost our main card. That's funny. Well, what are some areas that we're currently seeing? Men score touchdowns.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about the good things, the great ways that guys are showing up well in society, relationships and their faith, or things that we can just celebrate that you've seen what I've seen uh, I mean especially around here is that I've seen more and more men desiring a relationship and I don't mean a romantic relationship, I mean mean relationship with other men. And the more that I see guys grow in community, they're also growing spiritually, and I think that's a huge win. And I see the interest level in society just percolating like crazy.
Speaker 1:Like we're almost at a boil. Wow.
Speaker 2:Where I see guys that have had no interest in who Christ is start suddenly going. I mean look at Joe Rogan.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Started suddenly going. Man, I think there's something to this.
Speaker 1:That kind of makes sense yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so that's a huge win. I see wins with guys in their relationships with their wives week as we do discipleship around here, where guys are learning to be that sincere, sincere husband or that sincere boyfriend or whatever that can go home and genuinely say how are you doing today? Yeah, and here's how I'm feeling on the inside and have that face-to-face conversation where normally it's guys like I had a bad day.
Speaker 1:Leave me alone. Yeah, I'm going to go play Call of Duty or whatever. I hate that we're just picking on the gamers. Yeah, we're not picking on that, not at all. That's all that comes to our mind first. First thing that comes to mind.
Speaker 2:I have a nine-year-old son who's a gamer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's first and foremost on my brain. Well, that's, and you, you said earlier you have to put the oxygen mask on first, yeah, and so, and some of that, you know, might be through going out and you know, you know, doing sports together, doing stuff shoulder to shoulder, but also engaging in the kingdom of God and the things of God with other men, to be encouraged, to be built confidence, to be equipped, and all those things start. Then you have something from the overflow. You have tools and resources and stuff to pull from right To apply to your life, and we find a lot of that. A lot of men are growing in their faith and then finding it's impacting and it's leaking out into the other things around them.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, and I think you know the, the biblical model of have your Paul and have your Timothy um is equally true today, of course, but I think it comes in the form of I don't necessarily need to have an older guy. I mean, yes, you do need to have an older guy that's pouring into you and a younger guy that you're pouring into, but that doesn't always come in a formal way, or at the same time, or yeah, anything like that.
Speaker 2:And so I think a lot of times, like we do discipleship around here, we sit around tables and we have an older generation and a younger generation at the same table and we're learning from the older generation, we're pouring into the younger generation, yep, and at the same time I hear a lot of the older generation go man, I wish I would have known what you know now you know, and it's not out of a regret, but it's just like oh if I had known that community is this yeah, I would have jumped in way earlier.
Speaker 1:I hear that all the time it's like one of the guy's biggest regrets is that they're like man. I didn't know how much I needed this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that's what I hear at the end of all of our discipleship. Things is, man, I didn't realize that everybody is struggling in the exact same way that I'm struggling. Yeah, and it's so beneficial to share that with somebody, yeah, especially that's going through it or has gone through it, and then also to share that wisdom with somebody who hasn't yet gone through it, so that they can avoid going through it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, and they can show up better sooner, right, yeah, oh, I love it. Oh, that's such valuable conversation right there. So I'd say what, as we get towards the end here, what if you, if you, could share one piece of advice with your younger self? What do you think it would have been, or what would it be?
Speaker 2:I, I am one that learned too late in life, yeah, to get close to more than just like two or three guys. Okay, um, I was always the guy that had like, well, you know, I've got my sister over here and I've got her boyfriend and I've got like one or two other guys in my life and that's all of my friends. I'm good, I can manage this, and I think it just it was such a detriment because it didn't. It didn't prepare me to understand people. Yeah, first of all, it didn't prepare me to have anybody hold me accountable to anything. I was able to kind of jump from group to group to group to group and hide.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:And hide who I was, hide who I wanted to be and I got to be. Well, I should say I was able to be who I wanted to be dependent on who I was with.
Speaker 1:I call it the chameleon.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:You can like be whoever anyone needs you to be and all. And it's a weird, there's a lot of that takes years to break down. Yeah, you know what I mean. Absolutely True, authentic self.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I geez, as you say. I look back to high school and I was like, wow, I was a band geek over here. I was athletic swimmer over here. I was the guy that knew who had who. I became and I became less about the thing and more like the people I was hanging out with yeah, exactly. You know, and they weren't all good people. Yeah, I got myself into a lot of trouble for those things Right there with you, but I think, as Us pastors were the worst.
Speaker 1:I know right. We're pastors because we have experience. That's why we're exactly.
Speaker 2:Experience doing the wrong thing, yeah, but I think, at the end of the day, I think, if I were to give myself a piece of advice, would be go back and make relationships genuine relationships. Yeah, not in an effort to hide who I, or maybe not in an effort to become who I thought I wanted to be, but to be genuinely who God created me to be Identity stuff.
Speaker 1:Man, it's a guess I would say almost the exact same thing. I'd also tell myself, uh, that you're going to pay to play.
Speaker 1:So don't waste your time destroying your body with extreme sports. I said get, play golf and get a scholarship man. But really, though you you'd already said it was the um, the value of an intergenerational experience and engagement. I I did that later in life and then realized the value. I went, oh man, had I done this sooner which includes a lot larger community group of people. Yeah, I think it's just, it's paid dividends for me in my spiritually, emotionally and just in every way and all aspects of my life to have another generation pouring into me and then me learning how to pour into another generation.
Speaker 1:It was just it's huge and that's I'm like man, that's something I will do for the rest of my life. I just wish I'd started sooner. Younger CJ, I would have said, man, get on it, you know.
Speaker 2:But For sure. I mean, there's, as Howard Hendricks said, there Two things that God's going to save off this planet yeah, his word and his people. Yeah, so spend your time on those two things most.
Speaker 1:Yep, oh man, good words right there. So, Howard Hendricks. Well, as always, guys, we hope our conversations are engaging, but we want to provide people with helpful resources as well. So what are some resources you'd like to point people to that they might find beneficial?
Speaker 2:Oh, Everyman Ministries, oh Everyman Ministries. That's one of my top Go-to. Kenny Luck and the guys that he's partnered with in those areas are phenomenal for men. There's a book the author's name is escaping me right now, but now the name of the book is as well the Five Marks of a man. Oh okay, such a good book. Yeah, just understanding, you know, vision for your life and your identity, and those types of things. The Bible, of course, that's good, that's good.
Speaker 1:We'll put that in the show notes.
Speaker 2:This gets quick, right here. Jesus is the answer. That was awesome. But I think more than resources that you can go and download or read or anything like that is find your Paul, Find that guy in your life that can relate to you, that guy that can hold you accountable. I mean, I've got guys that. I had a guy call me not too long ago. He's like hey, how are you doing? I was like I'm good. He's like no, you're not.
Speaker 1:I was like whoa, how do you know?
Speaker 2:I'm not doing well. He's like whoa. How do you?
Speaker 1:know I'm not doing well.
Speaker 2:I haven't heard from you.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, oh, that's good.
Speaker 2:I was like oh, yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Here's how I'm really doing Thumbs up emoji. Yeah, exactly, that's good, yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:So your resource, I think, comes face to face Mm-hmm. Most all yeah. Most most all yeah.
Speaker 1:Most all Is that a word. Yeah, and that's the most practical too. Yeah, I think we'll include the five marks of a man and Kenny luck stuff in the show notes.
Speaker 1:I'd also recommend intentional fatherhood by John Tyson. That's a great one for the dads out there. Yeah, another one that I think is really good, as Mark Buchanan, it's the rest of God. I always tell guys about it cause it helps you to understand Sabbath and rest, delineate between the two, that's kind of both, and and then it's just a really helpful book and uh, that way that you're able to pull from, uh, the overflow that you're not you know, cause most of the time we're working off of scraps and offering scraps. So Sabbath rest is an important one, so, um, and then you know all the we'll include a whole bunch of other ones, emotionally of the Heart.
Speaker 2:Chip Dodd and Rich for Lotus. Just about anything by John Mark Homer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go, practice the way there you go and, as always, guys, we want your questions, comments and feedback, so leave a comment on YouTube or, if you're just listening, you can email us at theother6days at southwestchurchcom.
Speaker 2:That's the number six, and so Josh I I. I'm stumbling over my words, but um uh, final comments. Man, that's such a tough thing, and let's, I didn't want. Can we just sit here for the next few hours and chat?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we'll just leave it open. You know you guys can listen in if you want, but uh, you know, with the men and just the way that you know, god's obviously stirred your heart and called you to this, and so I just appreciate you being obedient to his calling on your life, and I just see our church changing and men looking different here, and so thanks for creating a space and some opportunities for that. Oh, it's my pleasure.
Speaker 2:It's not me, it's the Lord, it's the Lord.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yep, and it's, but it's, and it's a privilege too, right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. We enjoy getting to do this. It's such a great church and great people.
Speaker 1:Yep, so all right. Well, there you have it, guys. Thanks again for joining us on another episode of the other six days podcast. Be sure to hit that subscribe, follow, share and like, spread the word and, as always, take what you've heard and turn it into something you can do to further the gospel and the world around you. Until next time, peace See.