The Other 6 Days

The Beauty of Communion | The Other 6 Days | Episode 62

• Southwest Church • Season 3 • Episode 62

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The eucharist is, at the same time, one of the most unifying features of Christian life and worship and one of the most divisive. In this episode we talk through through some of the biblical, historical & differing views on practice & participation in the sacrament of Holy Communion.

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SPEAKER_01:

Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Other Six Days Podcast, where we talk about life outside of Sundays and what it means to live from our gatherings and not just for them. I'm your host, CJ McFadden, and on this episode we're joined by Pastor Ricky Jenkins as we discuss one of the most sacred traditions of the Christian life and worship communion. But before we jump in, uh Pastor Ricky, what's one of the most memorable communion expressions or experiences that you've encountered or heard of? Wow, that's a great question.

SPEAKER_00:

I I there's two different experiences. Um so there was a time when my father and mom was just kind of figuring out who they were in ministry. We had always been at the family church that we grew up in, but it just wasn't jiving there. And my dad was just on a journey figuring out who he was. We were kind of church hopping a lot.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So there wasn't a lot of continuity for like a couple of years on Sunday. That couldn't have been 12, 13. Um, but man, I looked back on those times and said, man, that was some of the golden moments of family life because we depended on each other more. And we eventually landed in a church and all that good stuff. But to be consistent, my dad started a Bible study in our house, like a church service. Like it was a virtual church service that we had on like Wednesday nights. And he just tell Bible stories and all this stuff. We just have church, you know. Well, dude, having communion then with my family was probably the most like I can't remember communion in church services. I can remember them in our living room. Yeah, you know. So that's one. Another one was I was in Man Berserkly, California. And I was doing some community organizing stuff, and Berkeley's crazy. Yeah. You know, like um every religious tradition is in and around the Bay Area, but once it gets to the Bay Area, it gets weird. What? Yeah, yeah. So orthodoxy is like gone. Like these are some flower children, you know what I mean? However, I was on campus at UCal Berkeley one night and we were at a Lutheran church. And I'm telling you, these pastors, I knew these pastors, like we did community stuff with them, and I knew they didn't believe some of the stuff I believed, right? But we were at this service for college students at a um no, no, I'm sorry, it wasn't Lutheran, it was it was Catholic. Okay, but still Berkeley Catholic.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So it's all and we went to mass, you know?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And man, it was something about being with a bunch of 19, 20, 21-year-olds going to mass, yeah, being with my Catholic co-worker, a gal who's continues a friend of our family today. And it was my first Catholic communion. Yeah, you know, and so going up to a preacher and dipping bread and it just was more meaningful, more visible. Yeah. The idea that we're all in this together was way more apparent. I feel like evangelicals have private communion, but Catholic has public communion, right? Which I think is honestly think it's a little closer than what the Bible's kind of talking about, what needs to happen at the moment. But like it was it was special, bro, being with Christians that I probably wouldn't agree with, probably half of what y'all believe. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, but we were common, what we had in common communion, was shared. I I still remember that, man. Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, what about you? That's powerful. Um, yeah, mine's actually kind of similar to your second story. So when I was younger, I was raised in a non-denominational church. And so um I went with one of my friends, and I think it was over office 74, it was the Episcopalian church over there.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And so um, yeah, it was just I didn't know what to expect, and it was just a more liturgical vibe, and you know, all of the you know, all of the you know, vested stuff. And I ended up uh going up and partaking in, I guess it's the Eucharist there and um or mass. And uh they had the Book of Common Prayer, which I wasn't really super familiar with, and so you're just kind of following all of the all the stuff, but I can't I can't get it out of my head. I can still remember the chalice that they like wipe off. Yeah, and you you know, obviously this is pre-COVID stuff. Sure, yeah. And then uh, you know, a big chunk of exactly and then a big chunk of bread. And the thing about that was I was like, I'm like, you can how much do you take, you know, and all that? So it'd snap off like a giant chunk, you know, it looked like a like a Panera bread bowl. Yeah, but I got some peanut butter. Yeah, so but it was just a really eye-opening experience. It was just and I mean that just sticks out to me in my mind. That's one of those kind of unique ones.

SPEAKER_00:

So good, man. So good. Yeah, I don't, I don't, you know, we we do the individualized bread and cup, and I don't know if we shouldn't maybe once a year create like a we do ours in the middle of service, right? But I wonder if we shouldn't once a year, maybe Good Friday. Yeah, you know, kind of have more of an expressive moment. Yeah, that seems that seems to be fun. Yeah, we have to do that. Yeah, for this year's a Good Friday.

SPEAKER_01:

That would be powerful.

SPEAKER_00:

That just happened.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. Well, there you heard it. You heard it first. Brittany, I hope you're taking that note because we don't forget it as soon as we get out of here. Exactly. Well, we had a plan for Good Friday. I can't remember what it was. What was it? Well, so for those that may not be familiar what we mean by communion or maybe even not familiar with some of the biblical or historical context around it, uh, maybe we start by orienting our audience to what it is and the important part of it, you know, in the Christian life and worship.

SPEAKER_00:

That's such a valuable question, especially for so many other listeners are new believers, you know, and or grew up in a tradition. Yeah, right, but now have become a Christian. Yeah. So these things have more meaning to you now. So what is what is that all about? Yeah. Exactly. So um a few things, and I want you to jump in on this stuff too, but essentially, um, outside of just the rule of faith and practice, as meted out in scripture, you know, Jesus gave his church two things that I don't want you to stop doing until I come. And that is the sacrament of baptism and the sacrament of what we call the Lord's Supper or Eucharist or communion. Right? Jesus said, Um, as often as you do this, do it in remembrance of me. He instituted at the Lord's Supper, right? The night before he was crucified. All those wonderful pictures that come to mind, it's something that Jesus instituted. Most scholars will tell you that what Jesus was doing, and I agree, was repurposing what was known as the Passover, right? And so Old Testament Passover, the Exodus account, the tenth plague against Egypt, um, Jesus or God spares the children of Israel's oldest son from the tenth plague, which was to take the life of the oldest son. And they were to, you know, pass the blood over their door, which was assigned to the death angel, not to inflict that harm upon God's covenant people. And so he passed over their doors. Well, Jesus now comes and he is the son who is betrayed for us, who is who does die for us. And because he died for us, God has now passed over you and me in the way of judgment and put that judgment on Jesus on the cross called Calvary. So when I take up the bread and the cup, it is a celebration, it is a commemoration. And I would say, thirdly, it is a um reinstitutionalizing of the grace that I've received in Christ, where I'm realigning my heart towards the truth that I deserved something that I didn't get.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I was passed over. You know, and so no wonder then Christ said to keep on doing this to remind you and me that it wasn't about anything that I've done that secured my relationship and my connection to God and a home in heaven. Every time I take that bread, every time I take that cup, my soul is reminded, somebody paid the price for me. And so when we study scripture, we'll see it, especially in the essentially in the New Testament, various Greek words that we use. Um, you'll see uh oh more Eucharist. You've heard the communion being called the Eucharist, Eucharistia, um the which is the idea that the the base word there is charis, which is the word from which we derive grace or favor. The verbal form of Eucharistia, that's a noun form, is Eucharisteo, which is the verbal form, which means to give thanks. And so when I couple those constructs, when we have communion as the church, we are giving thanks for grace and favor.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Right? We are giving thanks for grace and favor. You'll see other derivatives when Paul talks about it, Paul stresses this is wonderful about the Bible. I wasn't expecting to get emotional on this. Goodness gracious. But when Paul, now that the church is in practice, right? I don't think we see a communion in the book of Acts, but when we see it in practice, in 1 Corinthians 11, Paul uses the word koinonia. Okay. So he talks about Lord's Supper with his the Danon or the Depnon, I forget what that Greek word is. And then, but he talks about when you come together, and he's he's stressing the idea of of fellowship. Koinonia means means fellowship, means means commune, common, um, our likeness, our shared position and status as redeemed children who are on our way to death, hell, and the grave. But now we share in God's grace. And Paul seems to emphasize the idea that we're all in the same pot together, having needed grace, but we're given grace by God. And so this is my point. Communion then is an opportunity to reset the soul that we were saved by grace, not through faith in Christ alone, and not of any work of ourselves, Ephesians 2, lest anyone should boast. So it's an opportunity for my my individual soul to hit reset. But insofar that the commandment seems to be that it's just be done in community with other brothers and sisters in Christ, it's also a reset of my relationships and my shared commonality with my brothers and sisters in Christ. When the church has communion, everybody ought to walk out fully reset as a person and fully reset as a community. So no wonder then that that was one of the ones that the Lord said, You gotta keep on doing this one. Well, here's the gospel.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

The greatest commandment that you shall love the Lord your God, thy God, with all thy heart, with all thy soul, with all thy strength. And there's a second commandment like it, that you shall love your neighbor as yourself. And on these two, Jesus says, depend the law and the prophets. Meaning the gospel is a complete reset of my relationship with God and my relationship with people. So now Jesus says, Every so often I want you to come together to remind yourself what the meaning of life is. Oh to be re-established with God and to be re-established with God's people. And so then what's our conclusion? This ain't just a little piece of bread, is it? No. This ain't just a little little Welch's grape juice. It's something way more like literally communion means God wanted loved you enough to make sure you get reminded of the meaning of life. Because that's the meaning of life. So that's that's communion. That's a little thing. What would you add to that?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I don't know. You covered it really well, and there's a lot going on there. So yeah, I mean, gosh, I love the way that you explained it though, with uh kind of that, you know, idea, the Latin root communis, you know, together and uh a gift of service or participation by all, really. Uh-huh. And so um, yeah, because we can always look at that. I mean, you'll see it where it's this personal uh interaction between you and God, uh-huh. But I love that vertical and horizontal piece that you really connected there, you know, coming together to remember what God not only did for you, and and same, and then you see this through the idea of baptism, this public declaration of a personal affiliation with Christ, but then and through communion, yes, it's uh uh it's a it's a uh communal declaration of an expression. Do you know what I mean? So it's this continuation of the fullness of who it's absolutely it's such a beautiful uh thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I know we're gonna get into like how different traditions look at it, but and you know, I don't I don't want to be pejorative nor do I want to be assumptive and you know simplistic or reductionist, but I sense in my experience, maybe that's the disclaimer. Yeah, there you go. In my experience, I love that uh some evangelical traditions, which is what you and I um represent, have tended to make it more um individual. Yeah. And I feel like some liturgical traditions, my Lutheran brothers, my Episcopalian brothers, some some of my Anglican brothers, because that's Episcopalian, um certainly my Roman Catholic brothers, right? Have made it um too communal. And I think it's a tension between the two.

SPEAKER_03:

That's good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I hear evangelicals all the time, you know. Man, it's can we make it more quiet? Can we make I want to reflect? And that is absolutely essential, yeah, by the way. We're supposed to think on our sin and think about what God but but we've made it so introspective that we've missed half of the reason Jesus told us to do it. Like, like um, what's the old saying? Um too heavenly minded and no earth, no, no earthly good.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Communion is both. Yeah. You know, and so I think we can learn something from our liturgical brothers about that, but also vice versa. Like I've had I've sat in Catholic Mass, you know what I mean? Like we don't talk about it in any of the, you know, it's just you just come.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, ritual can kind of become rope potentially. That's exactly right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So to where there's I don't know if there's introspection, at least on a level that I think the scriptures were were speaking to. And so that's why it's it's so important for us to have a podcast on it. You know what I mean? Because it's just something we do and we need to talk about it. Like what I should be thinking and rehearsing in the soul for those four minutes once a month that we do it here at Southwest. Exactly. Right?

SPEAKER_01:

So Oh wow, man, that's so rich. Gosh, there's so much there. I know I was thinking about it as I was working through it. I was like, this podcast could actually be a series, you know, on all the different aspects and you know, breaking it down. So we almost do it a disservice by including it in such a small because there's so much there.

SPEAKER_00:

Totally.

SPEAKER_01:

I one of the thoughts I had was, man, like as I was reading through and studying for this, is uh to consume both body and blood um would be one of the most intimate acts that one could partake in becoming one with someone. So this idea it signifies a lifelong commitment is union that happens in drinking and eating both it's both permanent and inseparable that we see in John 6. And so I was like thinking that, you know, and obviously we're talking about the the personal side of that, but man, yeah, that partaking, and we see that language in there that's really strong too, that some people it was too much for them, and what that that language was, you know. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

They walked away. They walked away. Does the scripture say in that is that John 6? John 6 unless you drink my flesh, yeah. Eat my flesh and drink my blood. Yeah, yeah. I think the scriptures say that some of them walked walked away never to return. Yeah. Or anyway, they they left him.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, you know, it was just yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I think what a wonderful granddaddy used to say the gospel will draw you or drive you. Oh, that's a good thing. You know what I mean? So, like either you're in or you're not. Yeah, and Jesus just made the stakes so um emphatic, yeah, right? Like, I'm putting it out there. I'm drawing a line in the saying, are you with me? It's an inseparable union, exactly right.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's so so it really is that it's not just Welches and it's not just a cracker. That's right. So important. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

So absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, you'd already kind of uh uh talked about it a little bit, but the different Protestant don denominations approach communion from a variety of biblical interpretations, and so let's chat briefly on those views and implications and then discuss some ways we show charity and work toward unity in that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think it's important for us to talk about this insofar that these various expressions, even though our people probably couldn't articulate them, yeah, they represent these traditions. We're gospel-centered church, obviously, but we're also multi-ethnic, which means you're gonna have different traditions in the room. And we're intergenerational, which means different approaches to it are very evident in the room, right? Uh so there's some people that look at it as, man, this is a formal thing. Shut up, don't move. Yeah, die right now. And then there's some that's just, oh, what a beautiful metaphor. You know, it's it's it's it's all there. And there's history to that because the church has talked about this stuff for 2,000 years. Our Roman Catholics who are the first tradition from which um communion sprang sprang, the Eucharist developed a theology that was, you know, as early as as um Augustine or it's been alive and well, but I would say they codified it um uh post-Aquinas, right? So that's 11, 1200, somewhere in there. It's called transubstantiation. The Catholics believed then that um when we take up the bread and the cup, that it literally L-I-T-E-R-A-L-L-Y becomes the actual literal body and blood of Jesus. Yeah. Now the transubstantiation is where where where you get the squishy part idea in the trans, right? Like it's still the physical wine and all the properties thereof, physical bread, and it tastes like it, but it is virtually, yeah, right? Like a you know, something something's happening there. And bro, and and everyone listening, if you want to to to look at some fun, heated arguments, you think we're arguing about stuff now. Look at the original um primary um archival, you know, recordings, you know, and and manuscripts of Luther and Zwingli and Calvin and all of the cardinals and popes and and and theologians, and what they had to say about this stuff. It was a heated debate.

SPEAKER_01:

It stirred some stuff. Heated debate.

SPEAKER_00:

So it's huge. Um liturgical traditions in the way of Lutheranism, um, some of the kind of like Monrovian, uh Moravian kind of some older Methodists do this stuff too, older Baptists do this, but they have what was called consubstantiation, so con meaning with, right? And the idea of sacrament sacramental union. So they basically said, Hey, um, it's not literal there, but Christ's actual body, actual blood is present with us. So the the the issue is John 6, because Jesus said, Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no part with me. So they were trying to compensate or or substantiate to use that word. Oh, a good one. As to how well Jesus said that that would happen. So how was how how do we understand that? Right. Because we want to be legit, right? Uh, reform tradition, um, this is a Lutheran Calvin, I think Luther and Calvin were together on spiritual presence. But they basically said um that when I'm we're having communion as a church, believers truly commune with Christ by the Spirit, and so that the presence, the manifest presence of the Holy Spirit in Jesus himself is among us. So they didn't say it's literal blood, but they said, No, but his spirit is there. And I think Calvin and I think Luther, Luther more so, I know Luther would be more so that no, that manifest presence is way more substantial when communion is happening, which is interesting for for for Luther, for for Martin Luther to say, but it's spiritual presence. Then lastly, the symbolic view. Zwingli was probably the best articulator of this. Yeah. And I would say Southwest sits more in this camp, right? And so that's just that at the end of the day, this is a symbol of a deeper reality in truth, right? Like this is not the body and bread. This this is a saltine from Kroger. You know what I'm saying? This ain't even Welch's. This is Kroger brand grape juice. Well, it comes in one.

SPEAKER_01:

It's a rip, it's a riptop with uh the cracker and it's a package for convenience.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it I don't even know if that's bread. I think that's just I think that's lab lab air. That's a packing peanut.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly.

unknown:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So for us, it's very much we are celebrating that truth. We're using relics to remind us of a deeper inner reality that Jesus died for. So, and all that's there in the church, and we don't get to say, eh, transubstantiation, I don't think that's real. But anyways, we don't get to say, hey, you're off and all that kind of stuff. What matters is what's going on with respect to what scripture called us to do, man. Reset of my soul with God, reset of my life with God's people. That's the main idea.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. No, absolutely. Yeah. And it the conversation, and you like you said, this is this has been a major point of contention forever. Uh, and it actually has divided into multiple denominations, and you know, a lot of that has happened because um of this type of you know, fellowshipping over communion. And so, how do you suggest that we hold to our convictions while extending charity to others who kind of view how they partake in this differently?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think I think it's always important for us to remember. Um, we've talked about this here, but essential versus non-essential um principles, truths, you know, whatever doctrines. This is a non-essential doctrine. I don't have to practice communion one of these ways versus another in order to get to heaven.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

But believing on Jesus, believing on what he has said about him, his truth in the word, having a relationship with him is requirements for heaven. Anything else we may disagree on, but if we can agree on that, we should be okay. And it's just okay for CJ to believe in transubstantiation while Ricky believes in symbolic view, and we can still get along because the main thing is the main thing. And I think I think it's healthy, by the way. One of the great blessings of my life, CJ, was getting outside of my home denomination I grew up in and realizing that, huh? My Catholic sister Christy, we're becoming good friends. Huh. And I'm just trying to tell her, you know, hey, let me tell you where where y'all are wrong. And I'll never forget the day Christy says, Oh, well, Ricky, I got saved. I know what saved is.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I know we do, you know, because she's smart, she went to seminary. She's like, Yeah, but one day I was at a church and came to an altar and gave Jesus my heart. I'm just Catholic. And we we agree, we disagree about a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But once she said, Oh no, yeah, I love Jesus and He's in my heart, yeah, uh, we can get along, sister.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

We ought to be able to do life together. And I just think that's been healthy for me. One of the best things that's happened in my soul is learning, befriending, doing life with people who disagree with me on non-essentials. And I think it's one of the beauties about the church. I think, I think it tells the world that look, we disagree on a lot of major stuff, but we do agree that he's Lord. And I think it shows the world a path forward as well. What would you say to that?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, absolutely. No, highlighting those share court essentials, I think is is essential.

SPEAKER_00:

Amen.

SPEAKER_01:

And uh that's where we can find commonality and union. And uh, you know, it's uh that's how you proclaim the gospel, right? You we know that a lot of the times they will know that we are his disciples by our love for one another. And so if we all proclaim to be Christians and we can commune or we can do, you know, uh, you know, come together on these core essentials, that it just changes everything. And I think you said it a lot. Uh you even did it, you even practiced it with your dad and looking at other expressions and stuff, but staying humble and curious, yeah. I think that posture right there, yeah, it speaks volumes, right?

SPEAKER_00:

And don't we need that in our world right now, right? Like in a world where punditry is telling us what to think and how mad to be. What does it mean for you and I who love Jesus, who are called to show his truth and his love? And I think we've remixed this and say we're just supposed to show his truth. And man, you and me as believers out there in the world where it's my way or the highway, and say, Oh no, I'm I'm willing to listen. You know, I was listening to an MIT professor on an interview who was an atheist who's become Christian. And it hit her. Her Christian friends were trying to get her to come to church. And she didn't hate the church, but she definitely wasn't going and thought this that's what non-thinkers do. And her friends, she said her friends stopped trying to invite me to church because they realized I would make up a reason to not go. And then one of them said, Well, will you just read a Bible? And that's when it hit her. Because she says, You know what? I'm not being intellectually honest. If I'm saying I don't believe a book I've never read, she reads the Bible, gets saved. Wow. And I think that's a good reminder for you, you and me and everybody listening out there that, man, there's a lot of disagreement out there, but I don't think you get to be intellectually honest, morally honest, without at least being willing to sit in somebody else's space and someone else's perspective. And listen curiously, with what the way you said it. I think there's a way of understanding. Don't hear me say you're gonna lose your marbles and go crazy. Yeah, I'm just saying that it's it's healthy, it's good for you. So, anyways.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and that definitely shows charity, right? Just to be curious about something. It shows that you care. That's right. And so I enough to know where you're coming. And we talk about that in all different arenas of life, right? Amen. You should be able to have those conversations.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, you bring up a point, right? Like Jesus was with the woman at the well, Samaritan, they believed in different books of the Bible, they worshiped on different mountains. They were about as different as the day is long. And Jesus knew he was right. Yeah. But Sis and has a whole conversation with her about religion, just so she can have a safe space to espouse to her views and her opinions. And process, yeah. Yeah, and then says, Well, oh, that I'm listening to that. But here, guess what? I who speak to you, I'm he.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Right? Like, man, and Jesus didn't have to do that. No. So how much more are we supposed to do that? Yeah. So that's a good model. That's a real good point. Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_01:

So, well, um, now with a little practice and participation kind of component, what would you consider a proper setting or situation for communion, you know, just based off of your experience and where we're at? Um, you know, run us through your thoughts on maybe a proper practice preparation for an ideal communion moment that you think might be beneficial or you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think um, you know, I just feel like there's more width there than there is stricture and um than what we like to say. Um and I'm not I'm not in the space of saying, well, the Bible says you're heart, you know. I get that too. Um I think though I don't see anything wrong with a believer rehearsing through communion individually. I don't that is not sin. Like by by themselves. By themselves. Yeah. Like I don't yeah, I think you'd be heart pressed to call that sin. Right. Some people that's the only choice they have. Yeah. I believe though to to experience rehearse the vision of it, it is best observed in spiritual community.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So a church service, a small group gathering.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um a fellowship of believers who just want to have a moment, you know, even if it's a family reunion, but they, you know. Um, so I I would say that community is is capturing the the most original vision, biblically speaking, surrounding communion. Secondly, um, we must understand that communion is a sacrament that is set aside for believers, as is believers' baptism. Yeah. And so Jesus, the two things Jesus told us to uh keep on doing is for followers of me.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Now hear me, it doesn't mean I got a good record. It doesn't mean that I that I I only get to do communion if I didn't sin this week.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Because I don't care who you are, you sin this week. So it's not about it's not about our spiritual performance. It's about our spiritual status as a believer in Christ. So if you sincerely put your heart in in Jesus, right? Put your trust and faith in him, then you are are you it's it's communion is for you. If you have not, I would encourage you to use communion when everyone else is taken as a moment of introspection and prayer to consider the invitation.

unknown:

Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

Communion was never meant to be exclusive. Yeah. And I'd say this every time I do communion at Southwest. It was never meant to say, hey, let's have an awkward moment where people who hadn't trusted Christ can feel shame and guilt. It was never meant to that. I think communion is yet one more invitation. Yeah. To everybody to say, hey, you've been listening to this gospel for a while. You know he died for you. Won't you accept him right now? Yeah. And take communion with us. Yeah, let it do. Amen. You know what I'm saying? So I would say those three um things are probably closest to capturing the biblical vision. I think there's something to be said about decorum in the way of sincerity. And so I think I think we do have a responsibility to not defane um our Lord, right? So like we have a responsibility to make him look good. And so I think being too casual, um, considering unbelievers who may be like, you know, at the table next to you at the restaurant, if you and your small group are having, I think, I think remembering that it's also a witness tool.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Right? Like I came from the old school church, CJ. Yeah. So we like we did communion every first Sunday. If you weren't a Christian, they would what they would do is they would have a benediction and everyone stand, and unbelievers had to walk out of the service. Oh wow. Like I I remember being a killing, like, why you always walk off of communion? But it but the whole idea was if you're not saved, get out. I think that's antichrist. You know what I'm saying? In that same vein is why I would say to church people, remember that everything is a witness to the Lord's goodness and grace. And so I think being loving and kind in that moment and understanding that man, I'm saying something about Jesus right now. Yeah. If I'm in a public moment, is something I think we would do well to remember.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So that's really good. Well, because you know. You look at both sides of the pendulum, right? You have the other side too, where you can particularly, you know, take them in a in a seemingly reverent or ritualistic fashion that your heart posture is not in the right place and you're partaken in an unworthy manner, but you haven't set the stage for you know you're you're you're just you're not you're not uh that's right, you're not observing and remembering in the work that God intended.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And so in that you can also be in error or you know, um and so I think like, you know, again, it's about uh like you said, uh I think there's some some some balance and some happy medium there. Yeah. So good. So good. Yeah, I think um I think one of the uh as far as the setting for it, I think I've noticed like, you know, because I'm always there, you always uh you have to be careful to not drive into a point of saying like, well, what particular place is this most appropriate to for? So, you know, some people prefer small group settings, some people prefer church, high church, you know, all that stuff. But I um I realize like, you know, hey, do this as often as you do it in remembrance of me. And so we're so supposed to regularly partake. Well, where do we regularly go? I regularly go to a church service on a Sunday. And so when we do that, like I I think that's a great space, and there's a there's a there's a way that we engage in it there that's very different than we do in a smaller group setting.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I have found as a as a as a longer Christian and more seasoned Christian, you know, for been a Christian for a longer time, that the smaller settings for me provide an intimate space for some introspection as regards the communal aspect. Sure. And some really sweet moments that I've encountered that have marked me. Sure. And I would say even ones with our discipleship group. And absolutely you know, so I've just found some I I found both of them. I've found some really memorable moments that I've, you know, where I've met with God inside of a large church service, and then other ones that I've met with God on a mountain, literally up at Forest Home. Yeah, bro. And so I'm just like, man, there's you know, I I actually couldn't give you the proper appropriate setting, but I'm just seeing the you know, there's a there's an opportunity in both.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I love in the Lord kind of say uh through Samuel to David, um man looks on the outside appearance, but God looks at the heart. And boy, is that the case when it comes to communion.

SPEAKER_01:

So what are some thought, thoughts or ideas or things like uh maybe some major takeaways from this conversation on communion that you want people to know?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, just you know, especially for those new believers, communion is all about the victory we have in Jesus. You're resetting your soul on truth, you know what I mean? That your salvation had nothing to do with you. Um you didn't you didn't work to get it. So you can't work to keep it. So quit working to re-establish it and just accept it and celebrate. It's victory. That's victory. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a victory right there. Ooh, Jesus. It's and and but additionally, as we've been saying, it's about the unity right we have with one another. We are all in the same boat. CJ's not better than Ricky, Ricky's not better than CJ. Both of us were bound for death, hell, and the grave. Yeah. And and we we ought to be able to get along. We ought to be able to do life together. Um, I think I think there's um, you know, I think being too casual, especially in where we pro we overproduce everything in evangelicalism, right? Everything's produced. Like I think I will say, you know, we've gotten a few complaints about our communion, but I I will say that we can be overproductive. And I think we've forgotten about how sweet the sound of silence is. And I do think, you know, I love how you say here, come seriously, not perfectly. You know what I mean? And so I I do think there's a reverence that ought to be happening uh in that moment that most of our folks in, but I can I can I can I I get it, you know what I mean? But I feel like um I f I feel like communion shouldn't be like communion, every heart should be thinking, oh wow, we get communion today.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That's what you should not like, oh brother. Why don't we no, don't lose out the spirits in that thing. Yeah, and that's why they argued about it for so long. It's a big deal. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

We shouldn't look at it as taking up space in our service.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Yeah, exactly. No, see, now I said something, but you said it better. No, you sparked it. Yeah, yeah. Not taking yeah, that's exactly what I wish I would have said. I love that. Yeah, well, that's good.

SPEAKER_01:

Because, you know, and I love that I um wrote communion is both reflective and anticipatory. So not only does it look back to Christ's sacrifice, but it looks forward to his coming kingdom. So because we can get stuck in the past of what he had done, but the hope of what we have in the future and the gospel representation, especially to unbelievers who might be there, it's just a beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_00:

So well, you know, you've heard us talk about it in circles here at church as AI becomes a real thing, and um the best preachers in the world are all in our pockets now, yeah, you know, and content and all this kind of stuff. Well, what's gonna make the church viable when you can hear a much better sermon at the tap of a button for the next hundred years or whatever it's gonna be till the Lord tarries? Transcendence. Well, the content for the first couple of hundred years wasn't that great either. Hiding out at homes, catacombs underground. It wasn't the content. The content was the the essential part of the proclamation of the gospel. The reason it worked, and the reason the church survived, is because Rickies and CJs were minded that they've been saved by grace through faith in Christ alone and that they were in this together. That's transcendence. And so I think, my brother, is that communion is one of gonna be the best offerings that are key to the success and thriving and surviving of the church in this next generation in an overproduced world, in an over-AI'd world where everything's ready at the fingertips, but being in a public space with humans who are looking at each other and who are thinking about the same thing. We get to do that the same thing and eating something that no one would pick.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I think that's I think that's the secret sauce of the church.

SPEAKER_01:

Like these continue doing these two things until I return. So that and you see the baptisms going on on the coast with 30,000 people getting, you know what I mean? So we got a communion baptism. That's right. Amen.

SPEAKER_00:

Amen. It's as if it's it's as it's as if there was a God who knew the future. No matter what you guys go through, these two things will work.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that. That's so good. Well, as always, it's our hope and uh these conversations uh that they're engaging and helpful. Um any books, podcasts, other resources you'd like to point people to?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we're popping some things in the show notes for you guys. Definitely some scripture references, which we think obviously are the gonna be the most helpful couple of articles that's gonna bless you as well. Some podcasts where they have the conversation. Then some really good books by the best one is by N.T. Wright, um, who is just brilliant. And boy, does he know how to articulate the history and the scripture and weave together all that stuff that's gonna bless your heart for you heady nerds out there? So you're gonna love that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and for you heady nerds out there, we'll uh we'll include some of those views of communion in there in a little bit more deep, uh deep and defined way so that you can take a look at that if you're interested in a little more uh breakdown of transubstantiation and all that fun, all the substantiations. Um any final comments or encouragements for our listeners?

SPEAKER_00:

Jesus Christ is Lord and enjoy your next communion.

SPEAKER_01:

Amen. Amen. Wow. Well, there you have it, guys. Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Other Six Days podcast. Be sure to hit that subscribe, follow, share, and like, spread the word, and as always, take what you've heard and turn it into something that you can do to further the gospel and the world around you. Until next time. Peace.